convince me to buy.. PLEASE! |
** added to from my post on the multiplayer forums **
I swore I would never purchase another game that got rushed out the door... but the more that I read about this game... the more I find out about several major Glitches and bugs, and that they released it with out even waiting for a patch...
Why oh why would you go Gold with a product that you had a major PATCH like this was, waiting to go on it?
andy if I BUY it, then I'm supporting that kind of 'rush' mentality... again.
Well Dag nab it, I'm sick of spending my consumer dollars on stuff that gets rushed to publish...
Every one wants to be like Blizzard and make tons of monney... but they don't follow the main policy of 'we will release it when it's done'
Crap, man I wanted to play a good space sim!
Tell me I'm wrong, tell me that it's OK to plunk down 50$ again and let the publishers continue to win... that it's worth it in the long run... I want to belive that so badly... somebody lie to me, PLEASE!
zWolf -out.
Talk about a pedastool...
I think this is the first tiem I've been quoted like that! 
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
I have no regrets buying
I have no regrets buying this game. That 1.08 patch was released only a week after the game was and fixed alot of problems. Also as many have mentioned, MM supports their products unlike some other developers that forget the game after a year. If you are waiting for a game as complex as SEV to be released bug free, you will be waiting forever. Remember, the blizzard games are very simple compared to the complexity of the SE series. If blizzard were to make a space strategy this complex you can bet it will have bugs. Look at hearts of iron by paradox, that was a very complex game. It took a while to get it patched up but it was definitely worth the money and paradox has stood behind it the entire way. So there you go, I would buy it if I were you. You will have so much fun with it, by the time you run into any bugs, there will probably be another patch out. 
Patch
A) It was a day after the game was released, most distributures just happened to have jumped the gun a little.
B) It also introduced a few bugs, like the ordnance for some reason 
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
I ahve to agree. Yes, the
I ahve to agree. Yes, the game in-box had problems, but on the release day, there was already a patch(sure most of us had the game before that but that's not MM's fault) We know there's another patch in the works and our feedback directly affects it. Aside from the occasional crash between turns and the Ordiance bug that has affected just about everyone, I've had a good experience, but if you want to wait a few patches and for some good mods to come out, it won't kill you. Personally, though I think it's playable enough now and pretty fun too.
Here is my honest opinion.
Here is my honest opinion. If you have any doubts about buying this game then you should wait 6 months. The strength of this game is in player mods and multi-player games. Give people time to learn how to script the AI if you plan to play solo. I have enjoyed many games under version 1.08, but the computer is easy to beat. Can't wait for the PBM site to host SE5 games!
zWolf, First welcome to the
zWolf, First welcome to the Boards and the Community.
I too have committed to not buy games that are rushed and sent out buggy to the point of breaking game play. I can not continue in good conscience supporting this type of business practice.
I guess I give a bit less slack toward MM on this issue as buggy software is buggy software, whether or not you will patch it at a later date.
Personally, I am waiting until I really see that the patches are forth coming before I buy this product. I had every intention of buying upon release date, but it was clear that there were many bugs to be dealt with in the game.
I am going to hold off until I see at least 3-4 patches come out, but I fear that the game will be about $19.99 by that time. I would much rather have had paid full retail if the game had been in shape.
Also, I have on these Boards made it known that I think MM should have a presence here among his supporters. However, you will find most people are satisfied to never hear a word about the game officially and simply believe things will take place, at some point.
Well, whatever choice you make I trust you will be pleased with it and when you get the game I hope it is all you imagined it to be and that you too become one that will continue to support this game in the years ahead.
I just found this for you in case you plan on ordering within the next 6 hours! It is $27.90 on sale form $39.99.
http://www.gogamer.com/Space-Empires-V-Front-Page_stcVVproductId6414513VVcatId444710VVviewprod.htm
Faith
I think it is worth it
I stumbled upon this series accidentally (friend wanted to buy me a videogame so I got to search through EB Games and find one and I chose this one because of great reviews of SEIV on gamefaqs) and I'm happy I did. Yes it is very buggy at the moment, but the Balance Mod (by Captain Kwok I think, right?) fixes a lot of the issues. In addition, if you are willing ot get by not using fleets, that seems to fix the Ordnance issues somewhat. So it isn't perfect, but every patch and mod gets it closer to that point. So wait a few weeks if you are unsure, but don't waste 6 months waiting for it to be perfect. It's fun as is, though you will probably want to play on high difficulty.
Thanks Faithfull
I too have committed to not buy games that are rushed and sent out buggy to the point of breaking game play. I can not continue in good conscience supporting this type of business practice...
Thank you for the welcome! I can see this game has a stellar community. (pardon the pun,) ya, I can tell arelady by that all too familiar Tingle, that I'll probably end up breaking down and buying this game heh.
I just guess, I keep hopin for that happy place where all games are polished when they go out the door, and you don't have to go search the internet to see if 'they work' before you buy them at the store... I mean wouldn't it just be nice to see a fun box you liked, and choose the game based on what was written on the back of it? not having to worry if it 'worked' the way it claimed to or not.
oh Well, I'll just leave that dream in the pile where one day my child plays with your child.... (--- Blasphemy? sry :- ( )
anyway!... ahem. moving on.
I just found this for you in case you plan on ordering within the next 6 hours! It is $27.90 on sale form $39.99.
http://www.gogamer.com/Space-Empires-V-Front-Page_stcVVproductId6414513VVcatId444710VVviewprod.htm
Faith
yes, I'll probably get it.. and now that I'm decided on it, I doubt that I'll even be able to wait for it to 'ship' to me... even at a ten dollar discount.. I'll probably just snag it on Steam... I hope that doesn't totally limit my mod a ability... and Multi player ability.. as a matter of fact, some one please let me know on those two things, ... I'll wait on getting it on steam till I see a response.
as for that link, when I logged in, it set me a clock for 25 hours, at that price, so.. I'm guessing it's set to a cookie... if you want more time, you probably just need to clear your cash.
heh, heck if you do it for enough days, they might get it modded/pathced up good. :- P
um, and Ive seen a couple of people mention MM and that he's a great guy and works hard, and cares about his product etc...
most likely all true.
however, as a newb to this forum, and this series of games, please, introduce me to the legend.
like what is it he does? what does MM stand for? Why does the Community offer such preferential treatment to him?
Speaking of community... just from the responses to this thread, I'm quite impressed...
Though, I tried not to be overly inflamatory, in certain 'fan boy' circles, I knew I was setting my self up to be flamed badly... but those who took the time to respond to me, did so with respect, and polite counter points.
wow! I really am hoping that this game works... it would be a pleasure to play on line in a community like that.
thanks again for the welcome,
zWolf -out.
PS - please do let me know about your thoughts on Steam, and if I can play multiplayer with every one (or just other steam accounts,) and whether or not I'll ba able to instal and play the Mods ... (I think I already read that the most recent patch isn't available for Steam.. so that's a strike against going that way for sure...
Thanks.
Steam
Steam shouldn't limit either if done properly. I don't know if it was, and I still wouldn't recommend it. It will cause problems with patching. Not all multiplayer games update when a new patch comes out; with Steam you HAVE to patch.
As for MM, let me put it this way. Space Empires IV was released in 2000. The last patch was released five YEARS after that, and a good chunk of it was just added features..
More on Steam.
PS - please do let me know about your thoughts on Steam, and if I can play multiplayer with every one (or just other steam accounts,) and whether or not I'll ba able to instal and play the Mods ... (I think I already read that the most recent patch isn't available for Steam.. so that's a strike against going that way for sure...
Thanks.
I found this info out re Steam:
Q. 1. Is it possible to use a boxed version of SE V to play against a player using a Steam version (and vice versa) ?
A. 1. Yes, both types of SE5 can be played against each other. But you'll want all players to be playing the same version (the version number is displayed on the first window of the game).
That was from the http://www.malfador.com/ web site, so I'm thinking that's good enough for me.
And on Steam itself, it advertises the abbility to use the user mods... so I feel like the Q's been answered... only thing is like someone recently posted... any retail box users would have to make sure they were on the same 'version' that steam users were using... as Steam users won't have a choice, they will be auto upgrated to the latest ver.
I just may be alright living with that... on the flip side, it wouldn't be done downloading before I'm asleep, and the game store is close to where I live... hehe, I may just snag it in the morning.
Dang, I'm so Glad I didn't find out about this game until today... I'd have had to spend months in anticipation for it!
Instant Gratification... gotta love it!
zWolf -out.
if I were you I would
if I were you I would probibly get the boxed version, that way by the time it gets to you there'll be annother patch or two out.
if you are a multiplayer type this may be better for you, there's still some annoyences in similtanious mode, cargo is a PITA we'll probibbly be bugging Aaron about that later.
but then again, if you get it now you can play around with it a bit first.
to answer some of your other questions, (though you've probibly figured them out by now)
MM = Malfador Matchinations the developer of the Space Empires series.
it is a one (1) man team, he outsorces some of the graphics and sound, but he does all the code himself.
yes although the game was released before it was ready, remeber that if they had till now and had it all patched you would be waiting yet annother month or so till they got the disks burnt, boxes printed wraped etc.etc. etc.
-----
an se5a is a ww1 fighter, it is also a car.
zWolf's Soapbox... unintentional
ya, I didn't do the steam thing last night, I'm planning to run into my local game stop and snag it this morning. (once I get something in my head like this... it seems as if I must have it as soon as humanly possible hehe, I'm even spending $10 more than it would cost online, just to get it a few days quicker!)
But just for all the bean counters / marketing guru's out there that may read these posts, my 'path' to buying the game, went as follows: after being introduced to it via the online store at Steam I did searches on Game Spot for similar games, and deciding, based on Game spot's reviews, that this was the best / most recent Multi player "Space 4x Sim" out there, I went to the home page, and somehow got to reading the forums.
It was only after I had had some contact with the Game Community that my decision was sealed.
n that's my story of how I became a customer of MM games....
Ya, I noticed on the Malfador home page some of that stuff, actualy that's pretty cool that a small team, (really hard to belive it's still just one guy plunking down all that code hehe,) can pump out a fun game like this. I feel better about putting my consumer dollars towards a game like that.
however: (see next comment,)
On this point I still disagree, I know that I'm a big fan of instant gratification... so I can see your point of view on this... but please, let no doubt be had in the minds of ANYONE, (bean counters especially that base there decisions on what will make the most $'s the Fastest,)
/* soapbox on */ I ALWAYS am more likely to buy a game that has more 'polish' than one I can get 'faster'... if there was any competition out there in this genre, or even something that was going to 'be released' soon I would most likely withhold my my precious few dollar bills, than spend it on a product that had as many issues as this game appears to have upon release.
It's just sad that we, the gaming community have to 'check forums and web sites' to see if there are patches to fix issues that really should have been fixed before going gold. BUT, also know that once I find a studio that DOSE take the time to 'get it right' before releasing it for public consumption, I'm a pretty loyal little fan boy... I seem to buy every thing they can produce... right up till I get burned with a shoddy 'rush to market' game.
/* off soapbox */
ok ok, I'll stop I'll stop hehe, I'm getting the game anyway.. I just have to defend my lack of will power ... mostly to my self, for buying a 'must be patched to work right game'.
I'm sure I'll enjoy it the way it is, AND so many here are so sure that patches will continue, and that the game will be supported for months nay, YEARS, after my purchase, that I'm willing to rationalize my previously solid commitment not to buy this type of 'rush release' game again heh.
um... let me do the close tag again.. I don't think the last one must have worked... must have been a syntax error...
/* OFF soapbox */
there hehe, I'll try not to bring it up again.
zWolf -out.
Wow! cool Game!! n thanks!
holy cow batman, what have I gotten myself into!
Man, this looks very cool! I went to Game Stop and picked this up... (the box also comes with SE:IV if some of you were wondering if it's an online promotion only... it's not.)
but, ya! it looks great! I can't believe that I didn't check out the earlier versions earlier! this is right up my ally!
anyway, I downloaded the patch, so hopefully there won't be many disagreeable bugs.
but looking at this it's very hard to believe that it was a small or one man team that put it all together... if that's really true... My hat's off to him / them, incredible!
zWolf -out.
PS - Thanks for treating me nice in the forums, (that's you Rilbur, that's really what 'turned me' from skeptic to client.
Play SEIV, it's well refined
Play SEIV, it's well refined and still very playable. Also try some of the larger mods for it. My personal recommendation is the Adamant mod (wishes for a port over to SEV).
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
I may just do that!
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
Hmm, I may just do that.. but.. I'm a sucker for shiney new things, heh, I'll play V for a bit till I hit a snag or two, then drop into IV n check it out.
thx for the idea though!
zWolf -out.
Ok how about this for a
Ok how about this for a reason to buy... I just researched mines that will only destroy engines and one that will only destroy weapons so I build a mine field with these on a warp point (on my side) and station a Boarding ship there that has shield damaging weapons. Now when an enemy ship enters my warp point his ship will be disabled and my Boarding ship will capture it. Sweet. Its the infinite possibilities that make this game great.
Reasons to buy SEV
Even with the bugs that exist, I think SEV is a lot of fun to play. You just have so many different options. I think you have more play options in SEV than in any other game currently out there. You can build capital ships or you can build fighters. Your ships can focus on missiles or on beam weapons. Later, you can do neat stuff like board and capture the enemy ships. You have diplomacy. You have espionage. You can design your own ships. You can build mines, satellites, starbases. With SEV, you have much more realism as a result of supplies and ordinance. This is tremendous fun. For example, let's say the AI mounts a devastating attack on one of your planets. Well, he most likely expended all his ammo. So, your forces catch him on the way back to his supply base and destroy his forces without them ever firing a shot.
I haven't even begun to talk about the modding options. You will see folks creating ships from every science fiction show out there. SEIV featured shipsets from Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5 just to name a few. That adds quite a bit to the gameplay.
Anyways, I feel like I've got my money out of the game already. I've played just a little bit... maybe 50 hours so far.
Kingdom Come
oh my...you have initiated yourself. prepare for a long journey.
Dont...
I say dont buy it. it isnt a good game.
asside from being rushed out the door full of bugs, it is poorly designed.
I really dont think there have been any improvements over stock SEIV (ok, hexes are better than squares and it is good exploring systems), which I returned to playing after less than two weeks of SEV.
Infact i'd urge everyone to go back and play SEIV so that they realise what they are missing.
It is a sequel for the sake of a sequel, which translates pretty flawlessly into a cynical grab at fan's wallets.
I tried to convince myself that it was good, but i just couldnt keep up the act.
=============
Matrix sequels
Starwars prequels
most any Star Trek involving Branon Bragga
any Kevin Smith movie
every AFI song post Black Sails
and now Space Empires V
Hah!
I don't know about others, but the changes made the the modibility are ENOURMOUS, and VERY VERY powerful. Wait untill you see the mods, some of which probably wouldn't even have been CLOSE to possible with SEIV.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
improvements
Hexes.
Real-time combat.
Directional damage in combat.
Ships can be pre-placed before combat
Limited line-of-sight.
Fighters are single units, not stacks (prevents the overpowered PD problem of SE4)
Better fleet control
Better STRATEGTY control; you can set attack/defense strategies, define when to retreat, etc.
Construction carries over
Better research screen
Customizable layouts for all statistics screens
Greatly improved treaty system
Works at resolutions greater than 1024 with no screen lost (SE4's system map is a fixed size, so greater resolution just gives you a black box around it)
The right-click menu is back- in spades
that's just stock, and it doesn't cover everything by a long shot. Yes, its buggy. Yes, the UI is weird.But to say it doesn't have an improvements is just wrong.
As for "sequalitis"..look at the game you are recomending. Space Empires FOUR. As in, the forth game in the series? Why wouldn't the same have applied there?
ellipsis
Firstly, i dont have a problem with sequals because they are sequals; i have a problem with bad sequals because they are bad. How oyu got to the other conclusion is a mystery to me, then, so are most things.
Secondly, change does not equal good, it equals change, lets not pretend otherwise.
I dont care if i can modify any stat screen in the game to be any of a thousand kinds of crap, i just want one good one. anything involving realtime or 3d combat i couldnt care less about because i play a simultanious movement game (i just find it alot more fun that way). Most other things on your list i disagree with because they make the game fidley to the point of unworkable; the science and treaty screens for example.
As for better resolution... well, i may be running it in 1600x1200, but it sure as hell feels like 640x480. Actually graphics is probobly my main problem with the thing. I'm not saying they are not advanced enough, i couldnt care less if the game looked like Panzer General 2, but they should be functional, and they just arnt.
Trying to start a new game (which i did 15 minutes ago, just to be sure) really irks me. the menu system is so overbearing, there are way too many semi-responsive buttons and scroll bars. And the load times just suck ass, i'm afraid to play beyond 200 turns.
And jesus, i hate the system map, it seems way to small to have such big objects floating around in it.
In the end it reminds me of Fallout Tactics, 30% of a game masquradeing as somethign more.
this is all just opinion though, not gospel. you can disagree with me all you want, but i dont think i will change my mind.
just to put my negativity into perspective; most of the gameing industry seems pretty flat to me at the moment, i havent been impressed with anythign since eve online, and even that pisses me off enough to stop playing it.
Finaly, I will say that i thought seIII and IV were innovative, they did origional things in a genre that badly needed it. I really wanted SEV to do the same, i followed its developement for years and pre-ordered it as soon as i was able, but it just doesnt. Thinking about it, i feel ripped off. damn it, the game wasnt delivered, it was aborted. Somewhere in its second trimester it was sucked out of a womb by the vacum that is steam, because it made fiscal sense.
screw it all, i'm just disapointed as hell.
Steam does Suck
screw it all, i'm just disapointed as hell.
Last I checked, steam is only a distributor, not even a publisher, this time around. I. E. its at the same level as EB Games.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Buy the game, its
Buy the game, its great!
Nuff said.
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
Done bought the thing... loving it in spite of ..stuff. :- P
Yup, I went ahead and bought the thing.
Ive been having a blast! and can't wait till I learn it better.. WoW the depth to the game is amazing!!
I've only crashed once, (trying to pull up a report on the oposition,) but there were 12 AI players .. (not sure how I got that many, I'll go with less next time.)
the only thing is.. I can't tell if It's lack of knowledge, or bugs, that cause some things not to work the way I'd anticipate them too.
for instance, I like to try a 'diplomatic' approach to winning. When I met a new race, I first tried to invite them to join an alliance. I set it all up the way I wanted, and hit send... but next turn, just got the message that I had 'sent' the request... but no responce from the AI. next I tried Treaties, to all four of the AI controled races I found, but got no responce back from them either...
soo, am I doing it wrong? or is it something that's not quite working right>?
Also, is there a way for me to 'add' my treaty style to the list to choose from so that I don't have to go through the set up each time I offer a treaty (or aliance for that matter,) ?
thanks for convincing me to buy, and I totaly empathise with those of you don't want to buy a 'buggy on release' game... at the same time, I honestly don't think that there is ANYTHING else out there that does what this with this depth, and attention to detail.
I've been assured by the communitiy that eventualy it will get polished, and will come to be beloved by those that stick with it, so I'm here, tryin to learn the game in it's current state, so that as the bug fixes come out, and the mods, I can enjoy it even more.
thanks again!
-zWolf out.
Ok...couple of things: 1)
Ok...couple of things:
1) there is an option to generate neutral computer empires when you start the game. I personally turn that off, which reduces the number of computer players.
Neutral empires:
- do not expand out of their home system
- currently do not respond to messages/treaty requests from human players
- generally are not much of a challenge
2) when you send a diplomatic message, it takes a minimum of 2 turns to get a reply.
try playing without neutral players if you want to cut down on the number of computer players.
Aha! neutral players off, a fix, thx!
I'll bet that's exactly what was happening then, I'm betting I was trying to make treaties with neutral players.
cool, next game I'll try turning them off, n see how that rolls.
in the mean time, I'm going in to mop up the remnants of my enemy in my current game.
I know it's nothing to the vets in here, (especially considering the stock ai atm,) but I STILL get a nice sense of accomplishment 'winning' my first game. In addition to that, I lost my first two games. well I didn't play to a losing contingency, but... in my mind I was 'loosing' bad enough that it was pointless to go on...
So lose two, and eek out a win on easy, the third time I played... that sounds about like the degree of challenge that a guy would want when he gets a new game ya know?
Once I win one or two more, and feel like I have the mechanics down, I'm looking forward to Captain Kwok 's Balance Mod.
Anyway, Thanks for convincing me to Buy, so far, in this one weekend, Ive gotten my 40$ worth out of it, anything past this is just gravy!
and with the patch on since the beging, I seriously didn't notice all the terrible bugs people talk about. (cept the lossing ordenance when making a fleet one... so I just went 'grouped up' but not in a fleet, and that worked pretty good.)
anyway, Thx Rilbur, combat Wombat,Captain Kwok, um... that guy that claims to be the master below frothy... and others I'm forgetting, but that are here on the forums, making a community that 'sucked me in' to a sleeper hit of a game that I had no idea existed@!
zWolf -out.
Re: Done bought the thing... loving it in spite of ..stuff. :- P
Hi there,
in responce to your question?
"for instance, I like to try a 'diplomatic' approach to winning. When I met a new race, I first tried to invite them to join an alliance. I set it all up the way I wanted, and hit send... but next turn, just got the message that I had 'sent' the request... but no responce from the AI. next I tried Treaties, to all four of the AI controled races I found, but got no responce back from them either"
That is right you get a confomation news report to remind you what you sent last turn? It some times takes several turns to get replies. Keep sending messages each turn? start with general and build up to asking for treaty?
Its deplomacy the more interactive you are with the race the more it seems to respond? Not always with the responces we want but thats life?
Hope this helps Spuda
Re: convince me to buy.. PLEASE!
You send a message in turn #1
You receive comfirmation of this in turn #2
The other player receives the message in turn #2 and can send you a reply.
You receive the reply in turn #3
~Myrath
Rilbur answered me in the
Rilbur answered me in the multiplayer section... I liked his argument and I ALMOST have enough to ratinoalize a purchase hehe.
Here's what he said:
---
---
I like it.
zWolf -out.