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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par MadDog le Dim, 2008-11-23 12:03 Space Empires V General

Just another annoiance I thought I would mention and see what others think. When you have a cloacked ship and find another empire, it makes first contact for both sides. Only the empire with the cloacked scout ship should get first contact. the other empire shouldn't know you are there. is there any way to change this without a patch?

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Arpeegy le Dim, 2008-11-23 13:37

I guess it depends on your definition of "first contact". I don't consider spying first contact. Thus, I imagine the cloaked vessel enters the system and makes first communication with the new species. So both parties would have contact.

And no, I know of no way to fix this problem without a patch. Until then just consider that the other side is aware you're there because you let them know by opening up communications.

Loyalty above all else except honor.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par MadDog le Dim, 2008-11-23 17:44

the problem is when you are playing a game where all computer players team up against human. It makes contact, then they are able to do intellegenc opperations against you even though they don't really even know where you are. this forces you to either spend all your facilities on intellegence for defence to keep up with the intel spendings of 7 to 10 other empires against you, or play with intel turned off wich seems like cheating to me.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Vince278 le Dim, 2008-11-23 19:03

Intel in this game is grossly overpowered to the point of being ridiculous. Picture trying to sneak an Eee "janitor" into the Pentagon. Smiling

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Dterror le Dim, 2008-11-23 22:43

I never have a problem with AI intel ops against me. I find that just 1 or 2 "large" planets configured for nothing but intel will be more than enough to shut down every AI player and have plenty left over to do some counter-intel if I choose. Later on I might add a few tiny or small planets to the mix as well.

30-40k intel is enough to shut the AI down, and doesn't require many levels of Intel to manage.

However, the OP's point is still very valid. If I were the captain of a cloaked ship flying through the territory of an unknown and potentially hostile race, I would not sit there beaming communications at them while cloaked. That just kinda defeats the purpose of the cloak, which is to remain UNDETECTED.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Vince278 le Lun, 2008-11-24 17:31

Never had much trouble with AI intel. Other players can be a pain though. As for cloaks, they were never 100% perfect in Star Trek. Smiling

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par obliwobly le Lun, 2008-11-24 17:59

when you play all AI v human it is a different story from the standard free for all as the AI all ally with each other and spend every one of their intel points against you, worse still they seem to save up their intel and have a backlog or intel power so that when you make first contact with them you suddenly get several hideous events all in quick succession and then it settles down IF you have more intel than the combined intel of all the AI you have made contact with.

When you consider that intel can turn a planets atmosphere from breathable to hostile then you see the kind of destruction that can wreak on a fledgling empire.

IMHO It is really not feasable to play All AI v human with intel on unless you limit the number of AI players and their distribution so you dont bump into them all at the same time nor too soon in the game.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Vince278 le Lun, 2008-11-24 21:56

Which proves my point about intel being way too powerful. The actions of an individual or group of spies shouldn't have that much of an effect on a planet or empire, especially a high tech one. Smiling

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par MondoMage le Mar, 2008-11-25 06:00

I don't find it that unbelievable. Look at the current real-life situation that we're facing with people who don't like us. A few people with ill intent can cause a lot of havoc relatively easily. And high technology generally makes such mayhem easier to pull off, not harder. After all, it seems like just about everything has a computer of some sort in it nowadays. In fact, computer hackers shut down an entire nation - Estonia - in 2007. Things like suitcase (or smaller) nukes, cyber warfare, biological agents and the like would be child's play for state-sponsored intelligence operations.

Looking at it from a military perspective, in the high-tech world of SEV such intelligence operations would be relatively easy to conduct. Stopping them would be the hard part. Makes me glad I'm not in counter-intelligence. It would give me a headache, to say the least.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Randallw le Mar, 2008-11-25 06:28

I've often wondered how it worked if I was cloaked. One of my favourite books has a situation where the humans are exploring new systems and they find no sign of aliens so they keep looking, until they enter the alien home system. They try to withdraw but seeing as how the aliens have seen them all along they have already blocked the escape route and their first interaction is to try and annihilate the human fleet.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par Vince278 le Mar, 2008-11-25 18:23

I've sometimes seen cloaked ships flickering on a system map. I think that may have been an old bug.

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Re: First Contact when cloaked

Soumis par MadDog le Mer, 2008-11-26 02:18

the all AI vs Human game I was playing also had the AI bonus cranked up to max. I was staying ahead on intel for awhile but it took most of my planets and I couldn't get enough resources to build a fleet large enough to defend against 10 AI empires sending fleets with 10-20 battleships and dreadnoughts against me. the AI is to dumb for ffa games, I can handle the intel no problem, like Dterror said 30-40K will cover it. But in the instance I was talking about, when I gave up I had about 180-200k intel points and there was an estimated expenditure against me of about twice that much. It just kept escalating higher and higher from the get go. On the first contact thing, alot of times in a all AI vs Human game, since they are all allied, when you contact one, all are contacted. So then you're up the proverbial intel sh!t creek immediatly. I don't think the intel itself is out of balance, it should be a very powerful tool, look at the RL cold war. I just don't know how you're supposed to generate as many or more points than what 10 other empires are spending against you. and you have to at least have enough for defense ops or they can completely shut your planets and ship down even take them over or cause them to revolt. It's not the intel itself that I have a problem with, its just the first contact thing. If I wanted to contact the aliens, then I wouldn't have cloacked in the first place. I just want to know where they are located so I know how to position my defences. Thus the reason for cloacked scout ships; uncover the map, and sit just outside my frontline so I can see the enemy coming.

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