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Accueil » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Mer, 2008-08-13 16:03 SE:V MODs

Since I decided that since I got bored of playing stock SE: V, I would try and make a Honorverse Mod and Scenario. I've only just scratched the surface so far, so it may be a few months before a public version will be released.

Most important changes:
Tech tree revamp, a lot of stuff will be deleted and/or modified to fit Honorverse. I will add a few of my own innovations based on Honorverse to add abit of flavor (Face it, the honorverse weapons are pretty limited, x-ray laser missiles, and lasers and grasers. So expect a few variations on those, I might also leave a few SE:V stock weapons in).

Simulation speed: I'll try to make the acceleration curves fit as best as I can to fit the Honorverse ships (btw, anyone know if you can get a component to change stats such as acceleration and turn rate?). However, in order for battles not to take hours, I'll probably increase the "background" simulation speed by about 10x.

Combat focus: Missile duels and point defense will play a much larger role, with energy weapons being much more lethal. Also, ship classes have been changed and modified to fit Honorverse Canon as best as possible. At this stage, I can't say for sure what that will mean for component sizes.

Pace: Shipyard build capacity has been boosted significantly, so larger fleets can be assembled quicker. However, this does mean that battles will get larger, and potentially laggier on lower end systems.

Possible changes

Unfortuneatly, school will be starting back up for me soon, so a few things that I wanted to overhaul may not work their way in with the first version. Things like an overhaul of facilities or an in depth universe creation.
Also, with the amount of modifications involved, the AI won't play it very well at all, so best played with friends. Also, I'm not a good graphics artist, so don't expect many shiny new component pictures, I may photoshop a few to change color schemes, but I'm no artist.

A few things I won't include:

Wedges and Sidewalls, SE:V just doesn't have the engine capability to do it. I might see what I can do about shields that can be partially penetrated though.

True FTL capability: I would need some help with this one, but the only thing I can really do about this is to make the Manticore and Erewhon junction wormholes reach a lot further than normal warp lines, let me know if you have ideas.

Shipsets: Because I can't model, though if anyone can and is interested, please contact me.

Missile Pods: I see no way to deploy missile pods except via drones, and those would give you more than one salvo when launched.

Current version: .1 alpha
Current Estimation of Completion: 5%
Done so far:
*Differant sizes of shields and armor.
*Modified ship mounts to provide extended range.
*Modified ship sizes to conform to Honorverse
*Missile reload and damage increased signifigantly
*Point Defense damage and accuracy increased signifigantly. Also added a few new flavors of PD.
*Addition of Capital Sized Missiles that do much more damage and are more difficult for PD to stop.
*Increased shipyard production rate (Not Final, probably will get tweaked closer to end).
*Many text changes to design type, colony type, and such.
*Several changes to current energy weapons damage, range, and names, but still mostly superficial.

To Do Next List:
*Universe Creation: I'll be using an Honorverse map and incorporate most of the major systems.
*Empire Creation: (Manticoran Alliance, Republic of Haven, Solarian League, Silesian Confederacy, Andermani Empire) Still debating whether to create the Graysons as an indepedant empire or as part of the manticoran alliance.
*Combat Simulation adjustments: Using ship mass to determine acceleration, while keeping all military ships of a navy with similar acceleration.
*Tech Tree Overhaul

Stuff I need help on:
Empire tech trees: Is there a way to preset a tech tree at certain levels for single empires.
Empire Placement: Is there a way to force Empires to start on a specific system. If not, I'll create it, play the game to the point of hostilities between Manticore and Haven, and using stellar manipulation to force starting points and save the game and present it as a scenario.
AI Scripting: The mod will obviously be best played with human players, but an improvement in the AI would be fantastic if possible.
Modeling: New shipmodels are not planned to be included unless someone volunteers for it (Not too time consuming, since Honorverse warships share the same general shape).

Class Restrictions: I'm pretty sure this is possible, but not sure how to pull it off: How do I restrict particular componenents to specific classes of ships? (Ie. Destroyer Impellar nodes, Dreadnaught Impeller nodes).

Effectiveness of Point Defense: As it stands, PD is either 100% effective or virtually worthless. So missile duels can take a full 5 minutes of combat with no victor. Is there someway to make the accuracy of PD like 70-80% at point blank, degrading more with range?

‹ Different Planet Skins for the FQM Ship destroyed when component destroyed? ›
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Mod Designer

Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par crimson le Mer, 2008-08-13 21:01

Hi, I'm adding pod missile to my Mod in the next version. I set them up so they slow down the ships and only fire once every minute. Hope this helps

He ponders the dangers inherent in the advantages, and advantages inherent in the dangers. - Ts'ao Ts'ao

highlighter/User define lang for NOTEPAD++ for SEV
Crimson Concept Mod for SEV

Crimson

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par marhawkman le Jeu, 2008-08-14 01:20

"Class Restrictions: I'm pretty sure this is possible, but not sure how to pull it off: How do I restrict particular componenents to specific classes of ships? (Ie. Destroyer Impellar nodes, Dreadnaught Impeller nodes)."

I don't know if you can do it directly, but you can set it to only let them be placed on hulls of a certain size(kt).

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Jeu, 2008-08-14 05:55

Oh yeah, I figured out how I'm going to pull off SD(P)s and BC(P)s. I'll using medium drones as missile pods, they will be mobile to simulate the effect of being towed (I dont think I can get them to actually follow the ship), but they will have a drone only pod missile that will fire 12 misssiles per pod in one salvo and have a reload rate of 5 minutes, so they can only used once each per battle.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Jeu, 2008-08-14 06:16

Reserved

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Jeu, 2008-08-14 06:17

What I tried for class restrictions was the copy the restrictions over from the Weapons mounts, and instead of "Hull size must be at least 800kt" And flipped around the sign. However, this doesn't appear to work. It gives me the requirement in components, but I can place the Mini Alpha Node meant for Destroyer Hulls on Superdreadnaughts:

Mini Alpha Node:

Number Of Requirements := 2
Requirements Evaluation Availability := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Quantum Engines.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Quantum Engines") >= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Requirement 2 Description := The vehicle size must be at most 100kT.
Requirement 2 Formula := Get_Vehicle_Size_Tonnage()
(less than/equal to 100, forum wont let me post in that format)

I think the problem is somewhere in the 3 Requirements Evaluation lines, but I don't know which setting its supposed to be.

Default settings are
AND
TRUE
TRUE.

EDIT: Did it, the Requirements have to be set to
Requirements Evaluation Availability := 1
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := 2
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := 2
for it to pop an error when your tonnage exceeds or fails to meet requirement.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Randallw le Jeu, 2008-08-14 07:54

If you are interested, one of my games turned into an impromptu Weberfest. My Arachnids, from Starfire, conquered practically all of the Kingdom of Manticore Smiling

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Jeu, 2008-08-14 11:22

Lol, I don't see that happening in canon Weberverse Randall. XD
In starfire, an SD massed like what? 2 Megatons? Eighth Fleet at the end of at all costs would rape any other navy in space.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Ven, 2008-08-15 06:52

Quick Update:
Done with most of the components, I need to test if the class restrictions actually work. Map is still only 10% done, because the Genesis map editor doesnt work for me for some reason, and I had to use an older one. All the vehicle classes have been resized, need to spend some time figuring out the correct acceleration values. The sidewall penetration system is in place. Depending on the weapon, it will be assigned a penetration value of "Superficial", "Light", or "Heavy". Superficial will do some damage past lighter sidewalls and armor, but will barely scratch past a ship of the wall's sidewalls.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Hugh Manatee le Sam, 2008-08-16 11:44

Awhile back when sev first came out some dude named kana was going to try an honorverse mod, but no idea what became of it. I had started a shipset based on the manticore fleet, but never finished it, in part due to lack of interest, a new job and at the time I couldn't texture for crap(and yeah I started reading the books instead of working the shipset...) Also I never actually figured out what all goes with a shipset besides the texture and the model(IIRC it's a file for the slots, a bunch of renders in different sizes for the thumbs and such, a thingee for engine glow, an ai file... I hate messing with txt files... I kinda miss SE3, just a row of stamps and there you go... or Se4 a lot more stamps but it was so easy to keep em straight)

I have the base "spindle" shaped ship from the references I was given(mostly profiles of the game pieces) and one of the pinnace ships, they'd just need to be re-sized and re-textured according to their class(which is what I sucked at then, but now I found a few good books on how to do 3D texturing and know gimp a little better and might take another whack at it)

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Sam, 2008-08-16 11:54

Due to my inexperience with the SE:V mod system, the first released version will probably just use the stock shipsets. I've revised the overall scope to cover multiple David Weber universes. Reason being: There is no way to effectively simulate impellar wedges and sidewalls, hence denying the infamous up the kilt and down the throat shots that would set the tactical situation dramatically in your favor.

The gameplay will probably be more similar to his Starfire series with the Humans, Orions, and the Arachnid Bugs, but with tech trees, components, and other little things that were based on Honorverse technology.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Sam, 2008-08-16 22:42

Update: Done with beta 1 version of modding the components. The missile pods work now, in fact, they work really, really, REALLY (give or take a really) well. There is no way im going to be able to implement them in the numbers in the books. For 2 reasons:

1. There is no way for point defense to even remotly keep up with that kind of missile shower. (And a superdreadnaughts point defense is quite ridiculously heavy [8x Laser Nexus which fires long range beams with .4 second reload, and alot of other goodies like countermissiles]. SDs still die in about 2 salvos from pods, while this is epicly awesome for fleet battles, I don't see a fleet battle happening without a massive improvement in the game engine and computing power. While this is true in Honorverse (ie. pods rape all), its impractical for a mod since whoever gets alot of pods can omgwtfbbqpwn the other person in whatever fleet engagement that there are pods present on only one side.

2. Hardware limitations: I'm running a pretty nice machine, and even with 4 Pod Superdrednaughts built pretty close to the specs given in books (rolls 30 some pods every 12 seconds), my game started lagging tremendously by the time the pod salvos were in space.

I think that's more of a game engine problem than my computer (trying to implement that kind of scale is like Supreme Commander is, and even under big battles, my computer doesn't hiccup and lag as much as on SE:V).

So what I'll have to take a non-canon turn with it and decrease the amount of pods rolled as well as the frequency of the pod drops if I want to make missile pods a viable

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Randallw le Dim, 2008-08-17 21:30

I don't know if you're aware of it but there is a Honorverse game coming

http://www.rulethehonorverse.com/

I don't think it's anything more than your standard browser game, but I'll be giving it a go.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par azacool89 le Mar, 2008-08-19 04:53

I was wandering how do wedges and sidewalls work in there universe? With insight i can probibly help you design a system to emulate there effect...

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par marhawkman le Mar, 2008-08-19 13:19

A wedge is the main drive of a ship. Normally there are two one for top, and one for bottom. Wedges are virtually impenetrable to weapons fire, but you can't fire through them either. However this is a highly directional effect limited to the top and bottom of the ship. The sides are protected by far weaker shields that are designed to be fired through. The sidewalls can be broken through, but it's primarily kinetic energy that does it. IE a missile hitting the side wall causes feedback in the generators thus weakening the shield. Some energy weapons also cause enough feedback to take down shields. The difference between the two is mostly scale. The main impeller wedges are fixed in configuration and the biggest energy user on the ship. Sidewalls are smaller and more flexible to allow for outgoing weapons fire.

Now why can't it be implemented? It's the directality of the shields. SE5 just doesn't do it.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par azacool89 le Mer, 2008-08-20 00:21

true.. But from my understanding (other souses included) its the engines that create both fields.

more engines => faster ship => harder to hit
\> stronger shields

OK, well then. anyway the wedges no however the sidewalls. Id say a combination of armor and shields to make there effect. Use SEIV leaky Shields and GG Leaky Shields. The reason being is the seiv system allows for very strong hits (shields low at time). Sev shileds To back it up for its layering effect and its leaky effect... That is make stock armor have the shield abilities ("generate" and "form damage") then in the armorandshields file make them have a penetration and damage value... Then adjust values as you see fit. The reason for the GG mod shields is so your not always taking damage but some hits will "pass" through the sidewalls like some hits will in this universe.

Hmm there is a problem with them being the engines however... make a min and max on the impeller drive of 2 (top and bottom) and give them the ability to move only. The other part (cant remember there name but you need them for ships to move) as the shields/engines... Give them both a mount so they fit the universe (bigger ships need bigger engines).

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Mer, 2008-08-20 15:20

Ok, here's a slightly simplified version of the official physics:

Ships are driven through space via 2 methods. The "Engine" on large starships is called an "Alpha Node" that in N-space, generates 2 enormously powerful bands of stressed gravity above and below the ship that are open in the bow and aft, with the bow opening being about 3 times "deeper", making it a wonderful tactical option to "cross your enemy's T". Essentially, a warship has no energy defense directly ahead or behind it (excluding Shrike and Ferret LAC Bow-walls and Stern Walls). In hyperspace, these 2 wedges reconfigure into Warshawski Sails, allowing the ship to ride the gravity waves between stars in several "bands" of hyperspace. The impeller bands themselves are impenetrable to any known weapon and cannot be seen through. They are essentially 2 bands of space where gravity goes from 0 to several hundred thousand G's in a few milimeters.

Less powerful bands called Sidewalls are generated by warships between the 2 impeller bands on the port and starboard surfaces, and are significantly weaker than the impellers, but depending on the strength, can weaken or partially deflect incoming weapons fire.

Limitations: You can't just stick a bunch of engines on a ship and give it ridiculous speed for 2 reasons:
1. Particle Shielding efficiency, Military grade shielding allows for travel at ~.7c in N-space. The same velocity in hyper, but since hyper is essentially warped N-space, that translates to an effective velocity of many hundred C on the upper bands.
2. Inertial Compensators: IC tech limits how fast a ship can accelerate to .7c without killing the crew. Smaller ships generally have more efficient compensators and can accelerate much faster than capital ships.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par Darchseraph le Mer, 2008-08-20 15:31

Implementation in SE:V

There is no way to provide the direction shielding, so what I'm doing is giving the Alpha Nodes (Engines) a huge shield generation ability, but they will be very weak shields, in the sense that they will only stop about 30% of incoming fire (Since the enemy will be trying NOT to hit your impellers, concentrating on your sidewalls). And providing additional "Sidewall Generators" that can stop a much larger percentage of fire, but can deplete fairly quickly, especially in energy range, or in a missile pod engagement.
Armor will Also be fairly leaky.

As said, I implemented the missile pods, but having multiple Pod-Naughts in space results in a ridiculous amounts of lag. So I may need to figure some way around that one.

All ships will be limited to a set speed (currently 12 hex for military vessels, 8-10 for civilians, but this may change). Military vessels recieve a 1.5 multiplier to speed in combat, with acceleration values determined by ship class.

Missile size have been cut down signicantly to allow more to be fit per ship, and come in several versions, with larger versions being more powerful, and having better ECM to dodge counterfire.

Energy range duels tend to get lethal very, very quickly, whereas with missiles, ships can fight to a standstill if they are well managed and adequatly protected by point defense.

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Re: David Weber's Honorverse

Soumis par marhawkman le Jeu, 2008-08-21 09:12

Hmm... have you checked up on the issues inherent with multiple shield types on a ship? They don't stack right...

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