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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V FAQs

Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par eberk le Mer, 2008-05-14 04:42 Space Empires V FAQs

To conclude a multiplayer game my friend and I gathered both our fleet and decided to slug it out to determine a winner. Because we both were surprised as to how the battle went we are trying to find out WHY it happened.

So, because my fleet was defending (I had a base around my HW which we wanted to include in the battle) instead of attacking... Did that give me an advantage over my opponent ??

Can ships run away during combat ?? In a third try-out several of my opponents ships moved from the battlefield but were still intact (no damage, supplies and ordnance enough). Can this be because they were part of a 30-something large task force and those 8 were the only survivors ?? Can their morale have failed ??

Shrines, Crew Experience and society bonusses... Do they really have that much of an inpact on a battle ??

Any other thoughts or causes ??

For everybody intrested... My fleet simply obliterated my opponents' fleet. We both had 75-something ships. Mine were half Frigates and the rest evenly split between Destroyers and Light Cruisers... My opponent had als Frigates, Destroyers and Light Cruisers but also 7 Cruisers, 12 Battleships and even 3 Dreadnoughts (with massive mounted Ripper Beams O_o ). And still I (with the loss of just 8 ships) blew away his fleet...
(almost 60% of my ships were Elite Crew, the rest Veteran Crews, I had lvl 10 Shrines in that system and have Warrior society plus lvl 4 or 5 in Cultural-History)

Thanks for the input

‹ What settings in text files can you change during a game? Treaties? ›
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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Randallw le Mer, 2008-05-14 05:34

I don't think being the defender makes a difference unless you are palying some mod with facilities that do stuff like give you extra shields or skill. (Edit: missed you had shrines. No wonder you hit him more)

Ships can retreat. It dpeends on what strategy you were using. It could be something like retreat: When 75% of force is destroyed.

I haven't made much use of experience as I usually just go with swamping the enemy but I think experience would make a difference. Say they have +20 due to experience, I think this means your attacks are +20% better to hit, and you are +20% harder to hit.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Myrath le Mer, 2008-05-14 07:46

Your friends ship may not have been firing at point blank range with those ripper beams. Those are VERY short range weapons and your early shots may have made a huge difference.
So ... your friend should look into the ship strategies, me thinks.

~Myrath

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Slimbo le Mer, 2008-05-14 09:17

That's one of the advantages of psychic tech. You can get the training facilities sooner.
Damn strait those bonus's make a dif.

~Slimbo

Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design...

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par eberk le Ven, 2008-05-16 02:45

Thanks for the input guys... but I found out something else, something that really worries me...

My fleet : 75+ ships (50% Frigates, 25% Destroyers & 25% Light Cruisers) Small tech advantage, lvl 10 Shrines, lvl 4 or 5 Cultural- History, 50% Elite and 50 % Veteran Crews and Warrior society...

Opponent's Fleet : 75+ ships (even numbers of Frigates, Destroyers, Light Cruiser plus 7 Cruisers, 12 Battleships and 3 Dreadnoughts).

(we both scrapped our fighters for these try-outs)

Battle 1 : my fleet wasn't organised in fleets or task forces and my opponents fleet was organised in 1 Fleet with 2 task forces (each with 35 - 40 ships) and the result was that my fleet totally obliterated my opponents (he attacked my HW)

Battle 2 : Everything stays the same except that my opponent removed the ships from his task forces/fleet and used them all separatly (like I did). And this time the battle wasn't one-sided. My opponent even managed to destroy my fleet and ended the battle with 15 ships.

I think this is a *VERY* large difference in outcome simply because my opponent didn't use fleets !! Is this correct ?? What can be the reason for this ?? We are totally dumbfounded by this... Can somebody please explain this ??

(it probably gets even worse if I would put my ships in fleets/task forces... don't wanna think about that Smiling )

Thanks for the input,

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Randallw le Ven, 2008-05-16 05:21

I've found that fleets and taskforces have their uses, but what you must consider is that the AI is being told what course to follow and won't change due to circumstances. You need to consider what strategy to give them.

For example if your friend, who I believe had high energy weapons, left his strategy as optimal or maximum then they will not be getting up close like they're supposed to to make use of their weapons.

In your case all your ships have been told, just each do what you think is best (which granted is whatever strategy they have as default), while your friend has it as do what I'm saying and don't you dare think you know better. So the strategy may be flawed for the situation but the AI isn't going to know this. Then when he removes the fleet stuff his ships will do what they each think is best and swarm over you.

I will use an example I have used recently. My enemy uses Plasma missiles. I stick to a taskforce strategy whereby all my ships stay in fomationa and don't wander off, they have a united PD front that easily handles his missiles as I close. If they didn't stick to formation some might wansder off and then they fall prey to stronger numbers as small groups of ships go off.

If you have lots of missile ships stick with maximum range and make sure you outrange him. In his case with HE weapons I'd go for a taskforce with point blank or short range. If he has better engines he'll get in close and blast your ships.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Myrath le Ven, 2008-05-16 05:48

Let your friend try this one:
- Set fleet attack & defense strategy to WALL
- Make 9 taskforces, devide ships evenly. (for equal speed and configuration)
- Set all 9 taskforces to strategy Wall on attack & defense.

This should allow his slower ships to arrive at the same time as his faster ships and should allow his fleet to use it's full power.

Takes a bit of work Smiling But it does work!

~Myrath

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par MisterBenn le Ven, 2008-05-16 07:50

I wish the combat simulator would revert to the set of ships you chose before a fight is played, rather than the leftover forces - that would make testing ship / task force / fleet strategies a lot easier! It's seriously click-heavy to simulate many variations of a large battle.

There's clearly a lot of fun to be had with playing with custom strategies, but in my experience there's quite a lot of risk too. You could make a formation with Ships Break Formation Immediately set to False, which could have point defence or massively armoured ships in the front lines and a second wave of damage dealers behind. This is likely to fare well against a seeker-heavy opponent (and would be a thing of beauty) but if you choose this and actually meet a direct fire-heavy enemy fleet set to break formation immediately, then you are looking at catastrophic losses. The enemy ships bunch together and concentrate fire on the edge of your formation, you have a lot of ships on the distant end of your formation who are too far away to return fire. The mass of enemy ships gradually works its way through your fleet and you probably lose 4 or 5 ships for each kill. With no area effect weapons available, there is little disadvantage in bunching up like that and training concentrated fire is almost always a good thing.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par eberk le Sam, 2008-05-17 00:06

Thanks for the replies, guys...

Weapon estimates were like this :

my fleet had 40% Meson Blasters, 40% Rippers and 20% Torps, my friends fleet had +/- 25-30% Blasters, same for Rippers and 40-50% torps (and missiles)

I guess I was lucky that I gave my Ripper ships the 'point blank' strategy, my Blaster ships the 'Optimal range' strategy and my torp ships the 'maximum range' strategy. (I had envisioned and designed 3 types of ships for those 3 strategies, Rippers with lots of armour and shields, Blaster with lots of armour and some shields and Torp ships with no armour and no shields...)

OK, I'm going to experiment with fleet strategies... and although I find them much more confusing then ship strategies, I think there is much to gain by using them...

BUT I still have one important question about them... Ships can gain 'Ship XP' and 'Fleet XP' (Ship and Fleet Training facilities) but which one takes precedence ??

If I have a Task Force of 5 ships orbiting a planet with both ship and fleet training facilities, do my ships gain both ship and fleet XP ?? will they become better as ships as well as fleet ??

What happens if I put 5 Elite crew ships in a Task Force ?? Will they keep their +howmuch bonus to hit for being Elite crew or will they just be a 'green' Task force ??

Thanks for the input,

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Randallw le Sam, 2008-05-17 01:06

The simulator leaving left over forces does have its use. I am defending a WP, I can test to see how things will go as reinforcements arrive, and how many fights it takes to destroy all the enemy.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par BlueTemplar le Sam, 2008-05-17 03:27

AFAIK the experience bonuses of fleets and ships add together.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Shrike le Sam, 2008-05-17 04:45

Randallw wrote:
The simulator leaving left over forces does have its use. I am defending a WP, I can test to see how things will go as reinforcements arrive, and how many fights it takes to destroy all the enemy.

I've seen the simulator do all kinds of weird things. Simulation of two ships versus three drones went like this: drones and ships clash, two drones and one ship get killed. Then the last drone runs away, even though it had no damage to weapons and still had plenty of supply/ordnance! Go figure ...
----------
See my PBW game stories on http://users.pandora.be/banzaiboy/sevpbw/.

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par Hearteater le Dim, 2008-05-18 09:55

Does the simulator still give different results based on the speed it is set on?

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Re: Defence vs. Attack and other Combat related questions...

Soumis par BlueTemplar le Mer, 2008-05-21 14:53

The real combat gives different results based on the speed & tactical/strategic it's played.

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