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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Mifely le Lun, 2008-05-12 17:56 Space Empires V General

I've tested this a fair bit in BM v1.14 with SEV v1.77 -- plasma missiles appear to only be able to fire in the forward hemisphere of the firing vessel.

Is this intentional? Is this BM only, or in Stock as well? (I'm too lazy to test Stock at the moment)

Does it have anything to do with the AI settings of my shipset? (I'm using the Klingon shipset) With the strategy? (using the default maximize range strategy, with a few tweaks)

Anyone have any ideas?

This pretty much makes plasma missiles suck, except as defensive weapons on weapons platforms and bases... unless those objects also have a forward arc, and then they would *really* suck.

Do any other seekers have this restriction? Do they all? (again, I am too lazy to test all the seekers right now -- hoping someone knows something that I do not)

‹ Best defense against Fighters and Carriers Will I ever be able to finish a game?? ›
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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Lun, 2008-05-12 20:54

It could be due to the defined firing points on the Klingon shipset. Do you see the same effect when using any other weapons? I would except they would all be effected.


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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Mifely le Lun, 2008-05-12 21:31

It looks like it might be the shipset that is the problem -- the Klingon Frigate (my test vessel) has 3 firing points -- all of which cover only a portion of the forward semicircle.

If a ship does not have a firing point which covers the angle it needs to fire at, it cannot fire at the enemy? It seems like it should fire from the origin of the vessel, in that case.

I suppose that amounts to either a bug in SE5, or a bug in the Klingon Shipset... although I would be more inclined to say its a flaw/bug in the SE5 design. I don't think shipsets are supposed to have a gameplay effect.

Other ships in the set have wider arcs (although several of them are missing certain portions of the arc), and get over the issue, for the most part.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Randallw le Lun, 2008-05-12 22:49

It is not a flaw. A Klingon ship should be facing its enemy when it attacks.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Mar, 2008-05-13 04:49

I disagree, it's a shortcoming in the Klingon shipset. The reason why the ships have defined firing points is so that a ship does not fire weapons through itself. All the stock sets have 360 degree coverage for this purpose and firing points on all 4 sides, so you'd never encounter this problem. This set is the first one I've seen that hasn't replicated that setup.


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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Randallw le Mar, 2008-05-13 05:50

Well maybe it's not in line with other sets. Pretty characterful though. Smiling

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par rahlubenru le Mar, 2008-05-13 10:25

I'd say it wasn't a flaw as such, but adds flavour, though maybe an advantage to the ships is necessary when using it if that's possible to counter the limited firing arcs

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Mifely le Mar, 2008-05-13 12:40

Since the SE5 AI cannot deal with not having all 360' covered, I would say its a SERIOUS bug in simultaneous MP or strategic-combat mode, where you cannot drive the ships by hand.

There should at least be a warning issued by the game when a ship doesn't have all angles covered, especially in simultaneous MP where the game doesn't have the AI to handle it.

There could be a default 360' weapon at the end of every firing point list, which originates at the origin of the ship model. There should be, at least in simultaneous mode.

Having the Klingon shipset be this horribly crippled in MP sucks. Especially since the max range strategy is basically eliminated from your available options with it. Your fastest, most manueverable missile ship -- the frigate -- is completely nerfed by this issue. It gets to fire... once. Even with direct-fire weapons, and close ranged combat settings, the effective firerate is nerfed so badly by this issue, that the Klingon frigate is VASTLY inferior to its opposition.

If firing arcs are going to be a valid gameplay limitation, there should be *some* advantage to having such a limited arc. If my ship can only fire in the forward 160' (~40% of the total 360' arc), then my weapons should do 2x the damage, or more (or something).

I think fans of limited firing arcs aren't really seeing the issue here. The Klingon shipset is useless in early-era multiplayer games with this limitation. That's a pretty steep price to pay for the flavor you wanted just from the look of the Klingon vessels.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Shrike le Mar, 2008-05-13 14:41

Yup. If anyone knows of any other ship set exhibiting the same "flavor" behaviour, please post in here. I'd never play such a set, no matter how cool it looks or how "authentic" it is. Crippling yourself in MP simply makes no sense.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par TakAhLah le Mar, 2008-05-13 17:16

You know, it would be really easy to fix!

Have you sent Atrocities a mail asking him to sort it out?

If Atrocities is no longer around to fix it...I would be willing to do so...it is only 5 or 10 mins work.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par rahlubenru le Mer, 2008-05-14 07:16

Didn't realise the AI couldn't cope with it, that being the case it is definitely a flaw. If the AI could cope then it'd be fine given an appropriate balancing factor, increased accuracy, damage, defense or speed.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Harmonious Hegemony le Mer, 2008-05-14 14:54

What file do you look at to determine how many and where the firing points are? Is it a text file that can be easily changed?

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par TakAhLah le Jeu, 2008-05-15 13:34

Yes, it is a text file. Here is a link which will explain how to do it.

http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/3302

But remember that if you do fix it, it will only be good for single player games...for MP games, Atrocities or someone will have to fix it and upload it to the PBW server.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Harmonious Hegemony le Jeu, 2008-05-15 16:08

Interesting. I was looking at the Frigate in the Romulan ship set and the way that is currently set up it has two firing points each with 180 degree arcs. Is there a difference in performance in game play between this configuration, and say the Light Cruiser that has 4 firing points each with 90 degree arcs?

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Jeu, 2008-05-15 21:10

As long as the arcs complete 360°, the ship can fire in any direction.


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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par TakAhLah le Ven, 2008-05-16 05:00

Just as Captain kwok has said there isn´t any difference...and it can be done with small model ships, but as the size of the ships get bigger there could be problems as the points will not fire if they have to shoot through the ship model.

So that is probably why the lt. Cruiser has more points than the frigate.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Mifely le Lun, 2008-05-19 13:11

The game *will* fire weapons through the ship model if you have a point and arc which tell it to do so. It just doesn't look nice, which is why the fire point system exists -- so you can place firing points on the outside perimeter of the vessel, rather than having all weapons shoot from the ship model's origin, etc.

Fire points on ship models are meant as an improvement to the game, from a visual standpoint only. They are NOT meant to affect gameplay, as I undertstand it. If you have a single fire point on a vessel, which ranges from 0' to 360' (I think all arcs are "clockwise" when defined, so this would represent a 360' arc, not a 0' arc counterclockwise), the ship should be able to fire in any direction from that point, irrespective of that point's position relative to the visual geometry of the model.

Doing collisions vs polygons is not overly difficult to do, but it *is* expensive, and I don't think SE5 does it when striking targets -- I'm pretty certain they are just spheres, and when there's no radius to the sphere (i.e. no shields), the weapon strikes the ship model's origin point, not the model as if it were collision geometry.

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Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Antarian le Ven, 2008-05-23 13:45

I fixed that bird of prey, I found it ridiculous that it couldn't fire point defense at seekers coming up from behind, so I added a rear arc. I wish they could have linked the placement of the weapons on the component display to the arcs, would have been nice, but then the AI would have to be much smarter when it was building ships.

My Romulans can fire their plasma torps out the butt no problem, btw. No limitation on that weapon per se.

Watch out for the Rommie Destroyer, as well. It's arc are severely limited on the sides, I guess because of those huge wings it has and no obvious side firing points, the designer reduced the side arcs. This makes it a really limited ship when using the standard AI 'circling' tactic. It needs to head directly towards or away from it's target.

All that is done before the naked stars is remembered

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Mod Designer

Re: Plasma Missiles -- forward-firing-arc-only... intentional?

Soumis par Shrike le Sam, 2008-05-24 09:08

Grumble. I took over an open spot in a PBW game and now I'm stuck with the Romulan shipset. Would you mind uploading your fixed set to PBW? It's the only way players can use it properly in such games, provided it doesn't break games in progress.
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