you gotta be kidding

GC2 still had lots of bugs,features not working correct and confiq problems when released.

We're all sad you won't be enjoying the game.

Is released by the testers, so people can have an idea if the bugs they are experencing have been reported and dealt with yet. Been that way since early in SEIV, and its not exactly a problem.

A) The game isn't even out yet -- it was meant for release on the 17th, its just that a bunch of idiots let it out early.

B) GalCiv 2 had its issues too, as someone else said.

C) The BT's actually did find a LOT of the problems... planets in fleets, a lot of the stuff that we're reporting now...

D) Have *you* ever debugged a program? I have... its not as easy as it sounds.

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

All I would say is that despite bugs in either GalCivII or SEV the one thing that Stardock has done and continues to so is communicate with its users.

as far as I can see there has been nothing, zero, not one official post, communication form MM on this game or the demo.

You can fault for bugs but it is clear that the closest thing we have as an official contact here is Captain Kwok. I am thankful for him, but I still say MM should be here and talking to people or a representative form MM.

Again, I know some will say MM does not check the forums and to send them mails/posts directly, but this as it stands, is the "official" forum and place for SEV.

Also, one other thing; I can not understand how in the world anyone can blame EB for bugs in the game, or being released too soon. They can not sell anything that they do not have in stock. And SEV is indeed in the retail box ready to sell which has nothing to do with EB Games. Blaming a retail outlet for selling a game they have in stock sounds a bit odd, does it not?

/end transmission

A.) I preorderd through EB a month ago and got the game Thursday or Friday.

B.) This seems to be a much better and richly detailed game than GC2. I'll never forget the first beta test which was nothing more than a empty GUI that didn't do anything. Nice exercise, but not enough to release as a beta.

C.) Believe me, MM/SF did an exponentially better job with SE5 than Infogrames/Atari did on MoO3! At least it runs and is playable, more than what I could say for MoO3, even after 7 months of patches. I don't think were anywhere near seeing Strategy First having to buy the rights to a name and change theirs to avoid negative criticism.

D.) Yes! It's part of what I do for a living.

Sincerely,
Kahn

Well - I wouldn't be too upset over what "stuff" said. However, the game did release too early. Personally, I have a great internet connection and I am content to wait until the patch is release to play the game. Especially since I got the game early . There are probably a few folks out there that do not have a decent internet connection that will only readily have access to the copy burned onto a CD. The copy the printed/minted really should have been a lot more stable than it is.
About all that crap about GalCiv 2, go play it if it's so much better. I played it and thought it sucked.

I read some posts (I dont think those posts were here) about how Strategy First/MM can sue EB for releasing the game early? How possible is this?
I mean, the release date is the 16th, and that was also the planned release for the patch? or am I wrong?

Due to shipping it's standard practice in the movie, music and game industries to ship product to retail stores with the clause they cannot sell it until the official release date. It's a logistical neccesity or shipping companies would get hammered every tuesday delivering millions of DVDs to walmart, blockbuster, netflix, etc all around the country. Go down to your local video store at closing on monday, I bet you see them stocking the shelfs with the tuesday releases. They had them all day but didn't put them out until monday after closing.

It sounds like EB games violated this good faith agreement and sold the items before release date, if they did that to a major publisher they would have alot of explaining to do and may face delayed release of future products (which would cost them buisness on major releases when the competition had full display cases when they opened up that day and all they could say is "it might be here this evening, maybe later this week").

Thanks for supporting me, Kahn, lol.

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

While its true that MM should have an official presence of SOME kind on these boards, the fact that MM is effectively one man limits the practicality of that. I'd MUCH rather have Aaron coding into the wee hours of the night, stomping out bugs, than holding my hand telling me "eveyrthing will be all right miboy, eveyrthing will be allright, and here, have a cookie".

Additionally, blaming EB games makes PERFECT sense. If you think about it, "simultaneous" releases even across the US (much less the world) depend on those stores that get it sooner to wait for those stores that get it later to have it before putting it out. Its a practical impossibility to get it to every store on the same day/time; thus they ship it 2-3 weeks early (judging fromt he release of SEV) and count on the stores to wait untill the release date to put it on the shelves.

I wouldn't be surprised if EB games ends up in trouble for their behavoiur, because I'm betting that a few of the larger game companys will take note and put them at the ass-end of the supply train (or should, at least, if they have half a brain).

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

I have never seen a relatively small number folks get so worked up over a release date. Who cares? Get a life. If the game in fact did get released early (I've seen so many distributors trying to beat each other out with special offers, packages and pre-release sales on this title that I can't really say whether I received mine before it was promised, but then again, I didn't notice because I didn't care!), then I would expect to wait for the patch and not get bent out of shape over it.
As for retaliation goes, I would seriously doubt any distributer would be stupid enough to start a legal pi$$!^% match with EB. This would be tantamount to suicide once one objectively looks at the facts.

1. Walmart - Cherry picks titles. Extremely low profit margin for the publisher (sometimes it's a low as a cent or two on the dollar). Has a history of interfering in game development resulting in games being altered specifically for sale in their stores. Why do you think games like "Deer Hunter" ever saw the light of day?
2. Best Buys, Circuit City - Only carry titles that they believe will sell at least 50,000 units or more. If you're an indi, forget it!
3. Game Stop - Whoops, they ARE EB now, can't get away from these guys.
4. EB - Steadily shrinking it's selection since being taken over by Game Stop, who's philosophy is "Why sell computer games with an $8 profit margin when we can sell console games with a $12 profit margin?" The only place in town that you can still find titles that may sell less than 10,000 units total.
5. Steam - "Get Steamed!", nuf said. As game publishers like Valve, EA, etc. attempt to get into the media distribution and marketing business, they are increasingly finding it harder to maintain the volume needed to sustain the infrastructure necessary for such an endeavor. If I had to make a prediction, expect these new entries into the internet marketing and delivery field to be dead in 3 year's time.

Sincerely,
Kahn

Rilbur, I am not looking for hand holding or a cookie. MM made choice to be a one man show, if indeed he is "the" sole person on the payroll.

I am not looking for him to be here every day fawning over all the users, but when there is no word on an upcoming patch, no word on why the Beta Testers concerns went unanswered, and what ideas will be implemented in to the game (to name a few), that is too far in the no comment and no care for the customer category.

I have no axe to grind; I am only responding to the things I see, or the things that are clearly lacking.

No one really has any idea what is going on because MM says absolutely nothing. People can speculate but there is as far as I know nothing official as to the future course of SEV.

Just go look at Stardock site regarding GalCivII and you will find Brad who spends countless hours as well coding the AI for the game also online adding posts, responding to people, and being interviewed regarding the game.

I do not believe there is one person here that can really give a good reason why MM is never here. Saying he shys away, or is busy is nothing more than speculation, and no more valid than me saying he has 30 minutes each week to read and post in his official forums.

Also, regarding EB Games. If they released early I can understand others being upset, but that still does not make it EB's fault of a buggy release of the game. To say they should have waited so it coincided with a patch release makes it sound like it was not right the game was released because it is a buggy game and should have been released only when the patch was ready.

It would not change the fact, it is a buggy game.

Patch is out on the 16th.

Again... much bigger team. It's nice if a developer has time to post and give updates to fans but the fact is if there isn't time then there isn't time. Bugs run rampant and zombies take over the earth... hellfire and all that. Point is granted an offical release would be nice to confirm what's been fixed, but those first few weeks that's all stardock did for galcivII. You can sit and bitch all day about how developers should do this and developers should do that but, right or wrong, developers are under no obligation to say one thing to us. If the patch is good, as it probably will be, the man's work will speak for it's self. Far more important I think.

I wouldn't mind the bugs of a beta version so much considering that the game was 30% cheaper for me than most other full release games. Except I'm at a point where it crashes whenever I end my turn. Otherwise I'd be perfectly content to play with all the other non game breaking bugs as long as they would be fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

As for releasing games before they're ready for market, there's a game called Mount & Blade that is still in development, yet still available for sale. You can buy and play the game while it's still being developed with the price starting low and gradually increasing as it gets closer to release. There are complaints if a version takes a long time, but otherwise people tend to be quite forgiving of bugs. Certainly an interesting methodology anyway.

This is the single biggest reason why I choose console almost always over PC, other than SE and GalCiv I really stay away from the PC as much as possible cause the fans on PC are way too complainy. Not to say people don't complain on consoles, they actually probably complain more. But it's never about bugs, or how they feel they got cheated out of the money or stupid BS like what's happening here. There are bugs on a console game? guess what? sucks to be you cause you're stuck with them. PC fans never realize how good they have it for the simple fact that, if the game has bugs, there will be patches. They will be fixed. Bugs are an annoyance no doubt. but they'll be squashed. So sit back, relax, and just chill. Hear a game is too buggy? Don't buy it. But to sit, buy a game, then complain about there being bugs is really dumb. It was just released. released early mind you. Had the release date been followed then the game wouldn't be buggy because there would have been a patch release day. I rant to much. Goodnight.

I am not sure where MM is, but interaction with the community, at least on the "official" site would be nice. Just a "Hello, thanks for the interest in the game and the bug reporting. I am working on getting them stamped out" would be nice.

However, if the patch is ready, why wait?

It is strange that SE has so many bugs. Aaron should have plenty of programming experience by now, and there are techniques out there to reduce and minimize programming errors.

Still, I know that when I buy the game (someone please answer this question) it will be supported and expanded for a long time and I will eventually get much more then I bought originally.

Us aussie's picked up our copies on the 2nd Oct. So we would of had the retail bugged version for 2 weeks now.

Though i cannot confirm that our version has those same bugs due to my system constantly restarting when trying to work through the menu or apon first load.
But its not long now..

I also ran out and brought the game on Oct 2nd here in NZ, and unfortunately it does contain quite a few bugs, some serious enough to make the game unplayable beyond a certain point. (i.e. at the moment i end my turn and all my research points dissappear from then on in. ).

So needless to say i'm hanging out for the patch (not sure if that specific issue was fixed, but will see).

Well, at the least, it's not developed by Deric Smart, so that's a huuuuge up point that should make everyone happy.

Well i have and love all of Derek Smart's releases. I guess its just to much for some.

The main problem with the early release was that a) it led to confusion in what the actual release date was and some were frustrated with that and b) Had the original release date been today as it should have than the patch would have been available much sooner - saving many players headaches because it is a lot more stable and has UI hangups improved.

In my own opinion I would have said that the patched version would have made a much better release (although not perfect) than what was released. However I'm fortunate enough to know that at least the game will be supported in a timely fashion for a good while after. But if you're not happy now then play some other games and check back in a few months, you might have a better time.

-----

Space Empires Depot | Space Food Empires!

Please folks, read before getting your panties in a bind. I even highlighted the significant parts of the article for those who are graphically challenged.

Sincerely,
Kahn

Whatever.

Empire at War has the depth of tissue paper. Take away the Star Wars license and it wouldn't have sold 20 units. I played it for a month, drawn in by my love of SW, its sitting on a shelf, waiting for me to throw it in the trash.

GalCiv lasted about a month too. It couldn't hold a candle to SEIV, nevermind SEV. GalCiv 2? A slight improvement, slight. Oh goody, beam, missle, gun. Yawn. If GalCiv2 is so great, why are you even here?

The offical release date is today. Later today, a patch comes out that fixes almost every bug I found in my weekend of testing. I'll still be playing SEv 6 months from now, probably 6 years from now.

If you can't find answers to your questions, its because you aren't trying. You have pleanty of energy to rain on our parade, but none to find the answers to your questions.

I still play SEIV, and i never bought the game, just kept re playing the demo. i got very good at a game in 100 turns. i been playing it ever since the demo came out. now i have the game cause it came with my SEV. Now, i'm playing SEV, and damn i have a good 7 turns before that processing stop I can foresee myself playing this game for a very long time.

Also, could you send me empire at war i never bought that either.

Generally, i consider it a bad idea to go to a game's forums and flame the game. i mean, do you go to a KKK meeting and proclaim your membership to the Black Panthers? I'm pretty sure you don't. Do you go to Rome and call the whole gladiator thing hogwash and talk about how you huns sleep riding your ponies? no, not really. I mean, its not life or death, its just respectful.

Send me a private message with your address and I'll ship EaW for free if you live in the US. I'll never play it again. I'd rather choke.

Maybe it’s a good thing MM does not get involved with these boards. I spent three years working an a game as the Lead Beta Test Coordinator and the boards wore me down to the point of never wanting to work on a game again. I would hate to see that happen with MM. As long as he gets the feedback and keeps the patches coming, I'll be a happy camper. Captain Kwok, I'm still not clear what your role is but I for one appreciate all your work. Thanks. I am confused as to why this is even an issue. It’s the standard business model for PC games. Do your best to get it 100% for the release date and then patch the things you did not get. Most people don’t understand the expense of pushing a release date back, something a small company can not afford.

"Fast, cheap, good. Pick two." So few publishers in this industry pick "good" that's it's a wonder anybody can stay in business long enough to produce a second title.

(I used to be a professional programmer. I was fired once for taking too long to write a program which I had never been given a deadline for completing. [This was in academia, not industry.] My boss told me it was some of the best-written code he'd ever seen, just before he let me go.)

7pm est 5hrs to go- doesn't look like it will be today

Someone elsewhere said that it would be late afternoon western... so give him another hour or two.

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

MM is a one man outfit, he doesn't have time to post things in forums he is off spending all his time working on making SEV better. If you sent him a well written email asking for information he will respond. There are alot of community members such as myself who are beta testers who can answer just about any question you might possibly have about Space Empires games.

As for the buggy release for SEV, if you don't like the buggy release then don't buy the game until its patched, its that simple don't come on here bitching about the game and contribute nothing, submit a bug report for gods sake if theres a problem you want fixed.

Make sure you visit http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/ where the mature Space Empires community is.

... and I'll say it again.

I think there would be a LOT less 'bitchy-ness' right now if it werent for the fact that the patch was said to be coming out today (some would be complaining anyway, but thats another matter). Had the press release said 'soon' instead of Oct 16th, I think a lot of anger could have been avoided. (Note as of now, it is still technically the 16th, so the patch could still be released today)

As long as it is 10/16 someone in the world and they post then, it is up 'today'.

Isn't it a bit like telling your child you promise to play with them tomorrow; tomorrow comes and 1 minute before they go to bed you say "Let's play like I promised."

It may indeed be out today but what is the point if people are already asleep when it arrives?

If it is ready post it.

If it is not posted then it is not ready, Aaron is not sitting on the patch laughing as people struggle with the bugs that the patch will fix.