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Accueil » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Image de bearclaw
Soumis par bearclaw le Lun, 2008-01-14 14:40 SE:V MODs

Just looking for some suggestions/thoughts on how to deal with 'the fighter issue' in SEV for DN5.

In DN4, many more fighters sizes and items were added (though there is a serious balance issued with DN4.27) in an attempt to make fighters more useful. My intent was to make it so that fighters, though not nessesary, did provide another aspect of combat, as they should.

I want to still maintain that in DN5 but don't want to end up in the situation in Stock where if you are not using fighters, you are toast. Or at least, not using fighters exclusively. I'd like to see a situation where a combination fleet of ships (large and small) and fighters works best.

DN5 already has more sizes/types of fighters added. Zero-G Troops, Interceptors, Heavy Fighters, Deep Space Fighters (able to warp) and Battle Squadrons. I also plan on adding more PD weapons. DN4 had PD Lasers, PD Cannons, Flak Cannons, Interceptor Missiles and AutoCannon (fighter-mounted PD weapon). Some of these are already in SEV.

Thoughts/suggestions for what can be done to help equallize or just better utilize fighters and PD weapons?

More or less, this is what I have in mind now. My hope is that a combination of these on a ship would better balance fighters.
-Interceptor Missiles = slower reload anti-fighter seeker. Long Range, high dmg.
-PD Lasers = low dmg, short range, high ROF.
-Flak Cannons = very short range, high to-hit bonus, medium to high dmg.
-PD Cannons = same as stock (more or less) plus minimal mine sweep ability.
AutoCannons = very short range, low dmg, high ROF

DN4 also had a new fighter weapon called Assualt Rockets. VERY slow ROF, VERY high dmg but could only target ships/bases. Should these (adjusted) also be able to target fighters? (In case anyone was wondering, Assualt Rockets come from a Sci-Fi RPG called Star Frontiers that has been out of print since 1984.)

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Mylon le Lun, 2008-01-14 19:01

In general, I'd go for 4 PD types.

Lasers. Long range, very low damage, highly accurate.
Cannons. Solid slugs. Low range, high damage. Accuracy depends highly on range.
Flak. Similar to cannons, but more costly in ordinance and more accurate. In theory could be AoE, but that doesn't work, unfortunately.
Missile. Highly accurate and high damage, medium range, huge ordinance cost. It'll shoot down those pesky fighters, but only for a little while.

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par ekolis le Lun, 2008-01-14 21:06

A few more:
Machine Guns - similar to the autocannons in DN4
Spazers (for lack of a better name - I'm thinking of the Metroid weapon that saturates an area with energy beams Sticking out tongue) - a cross between lasers and flak, it does less damage than flak but is more accurate, and has a longer range, though the accuracy and damage still decrease with range.
Electrified Hull - there was a shell that did that in DN4, it repelled boarders as well if I recall correctly... This one would have VERY short range (useful mainly against kamikazes) but do a LOT of damage. Recharge rate is up for grabs.
Active Shield - similar to the Expanding Sphere Generator from Star Fleet Battles or the Pulsar/Lightning Field from MOO, it creates a damaging field around the ship. It would not do as much damage as the Electrified Hull but it would have a longer range. Again, recharge rate is up for grabs.

Or you could go the MOO2/GGmod route and just have PD versions of many/all of the regular weapons - make the PD ones mountable on fighters and they double as fighter superiority weapons!

Yeah, that would be neat... have 2 categories of weapons, anti-ship and anti-fighter, but let the player install anti-ship weapons on a fighter (with a downscaling mount which reduces size/cost/damage/etc. by 5x or so) or install anti-fighter weapons on a ship (without a mount for regular point-defense, or with a "battery" mount which scales them UP by 5x or so for targeting bombers/scouts)...

You might wonder "why bother having 2 different weapon types anyway" - well, that's first of all to save the player having to keep checking a mount unless they want specialty heavy-PD ships or bombers, and secondly, I don't know if you intend to do it this way, but in Space Empires, fighter-based anti-fighter weapons are typically more effective per kT or per mineral cost than ship-based anti-ship weapons, so this way you can have a 30kT anti-ship cannon which does 20 damage and a 3kT anti-fighter cannon which does 5 damage, or whatever, and then the "bomber mount" anti-ship cannon would be 6kT and do 4 damage, while the "flak mount" anti-fighter cannon would be 15kT and do 25 damage Smiling

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious Sticking out tongue

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par bearclaw le Mar, 2008-01-15 00:05

oh! I forgot about the Energized Hull Plating. That never did get implemented the way I wanted. I had to drop the PD option and go with repelling Boarders instead because of the way Shells worked I couldn't apply it to a weapon component, which having PD it would have to be. But with SEV, I could do that...

As for mounts: I liked having lots of mount options in SEIV but with the UI for ship designs, if there were even a small list of mounts, that screen would be an even larger nightmare. Wish SEV had a seperate window for mounts... and more room to display components!!

Nick (bearclaw)

"You don't know the Power of the Dark Side. I must obey my Master"

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Astorax le Mar, 2008-01-15 01:45

I remember Star Frontiers! Do you remember another game from that same era called Gamma World? Post-apocolyptic sci-fi ftw =D

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par bearclaw le Mar, 2008-01-15 01:49

Gamma World!!!!
I had a character that was a mutant tomato plant. Had some 'tomatos' that worked like grenades and a few that had eyes and tiny little feet. I could see what these tomato-lings could see so they were constantly scouting around for me.

Ah, Gamma World....

Nick (bearclaw)

"You don't know the Power of the Dark Side. I must obey my Master"

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Astorax le Mar, 2008-01-15 01:54

lol, Gamma World was a fun game. I wonder if someone could incorporate a Torc Grenade type weapon in SE ...

Could be imbalanced I suppose, what with it disintegrating everything in a set radius, lol.

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Astorax le Mar, 2008-01-15 02:05

umm, I was just thinking as pertains to your OP, what about smartbombs?

Smartbombs: high damage, very low range area of effect weapon with a high supply/ordinance usage

Just an idea but it seems like that would toast alot of fighters to me.

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par ekolis le Mar, 2008-01-15 14:26

Unfortunately there is no "area of effect" of damage in SE5... Sad

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious Sticking out tongue

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Romulus68 le Ven, 2008-01-18 09:41

Create a new weapon mount called "AA Mount"

1. Reduces their damage.
2. Can only target Drones, Fighters, Seeking weapons, Satellites.
3. Increase their rate of fire.
4. Reduce their weight.
5. Maybe and accuracy bonus?

Something similar to what ekolis did with Weapon Banks that are intended to target small targets.

With this option you don't have to create new items as it makes any direct fire weapon available.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par ekolis le Ven, 2008-01-18 11:40

Unfortunately, mounts cannot affect rate of fire or targeting types - you need separate weapons.

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious Sticking out tongue

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par bearclaw le Ven, 2008-01-18 14:55

ekolis wrote:
Unfortunately, mounts cannot affect rate of fire or targeting types - you need separate weapons. Awh man! And I was liking that idea... Though I think I will be adding a machine gun. Mountable on virtually everything. Low dmg but with a ROF somthing like 200-100 (fires 5-10 times per second). ~~~ The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious :P
Nick (bearclaw)

"You don't know the Power of the Dark Side. I must obey my Master"

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Spectarofdeath le Lun, 2008-01-21 00:59

One idea I had for a anti fighter/missile weapon was a repulsor weapon, not sure if it will work or not, but basically a weapon that pushes the fighter/missile out of it's firing range, thereby giving normal pd more than one chance to knock it out. Of course that means that the fighters would need short range weapons or else the repulsor weapon would need a fairly good range. As stated above, unsure if this is even possible or if I've just been smoking something, but throwing the idea out there for you.

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Vince278 le Lun, 2008-01-21 12:19

Its good to see so many people that remember Gamma World. Smiling

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par ekolis le Lun, 2008-01-21 13:52

Yes, PD repulsors are possible - heck, the Pirates & Nomads mod for SE4 had them! Eye-wink

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious Sticking out tongue

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Juju le Mer, 2008-01-23 04:02

Putting me in the danger of sounding stupid ..
Dark Nova is/or will be a mod for SE5 ?

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Astorax le Mer, 2008-01-23 10:42

Juju, it was originally a mod for SE:IV but Bearclaw has since made a SE:V version. I've been playtesting it for him a bit but I'm not sure if its available for general download as I don't see it on se5.com or se.net's downloads section.

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Mod Designer

Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par bearclaw le Mer, 2008-01-23 12:36

Not yet, but soon. Because of the scale of stuff I'm putting in and the relative limited time I have for modding, I didn't want to release a partial work yet. My deadline is the end of January to make it available. DN5.03 is the version I'm currently finishing and the version I plan on releasing very soon. That is, unless said testers find any serious flaws with it...

Nick (bearclaw)

"You don't know the Power of the Dark Side. I must obey my Master"

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Astorax le Mer, 2008-01-23 13:15

I can't find anything else wrong with it besides the points I had already outlined to you, Bearclaw. Perhaps something at the end of the tech tree maybe but I haven't gotten there yet.

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Re: Dark Nova 5 and "The Fighter Issue"

Soumis par Juju le Mer, 2008-01-23 14:14

Woooohooo .. then I will happily wait until release Smiling

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