Economics and Industry...

This sounds like a good concept, unfortunately also like one that would be somewhat hard to mod in.

IMHO economics in SEV should be made more complicated by developping the population (production & construction) concept, with infrastructure helping to house more population (like the habitation *** (complexes?) => habitation domes in Alpha Centauri).

Imo too complicated and brings nothing. (Only make harder to maximize production with given techs, becose there is more variables)

Does anyone ever played Paradox's Victoria? THAT is a truly complex economic system. I think the resource value levels idea would add a always welcome complexity and strategy to the game. As it is now, Its just about researching and combat. A better emphasis on economy would bring the game to a new level. Im always in for more complexity and detailment.

Concerning the implementation in SEV, I dont think it would be possible though. You can rename the resources but as far as I know you cant make new ones up.

SEV is about colonisation, research and combat. I'd say 75% (even if the remaining 25% still matter) of the economics and industry are contained in colonisation, then quickly filling up those planets with the most adequate (usually the choices are easy) facilities.

Those are some interesting ideas.

Although, sometimes extra complexity is good, other times it is not so good.

Being an effective 4X game, I would have to say SEV is one of those games where extra complexity might not be so good.

Last thing I want is for SE V to turn into Civ 4 or some 'business sim in space'.
I also don't want a Deadlock type resource system. What works for Deadlock won't always work for another game, such as SE V...

If you think about it, there is already a complex layer of economics involved hidden in a simple trade function.

Are these resources from trade just coming out of thin air?
No, I doubt it.
I think it is because the 'unsused stuff' of one empire gets traded for the 'unused stuff' of another empire, because what isn't/can't be used by Empire A is used by Empire B, and what isn't/can't be used by Empire B is used by Empire A.

Some examples.
Minerals.
Empire A uses steel based alloys, but is clueless about tin, so they trade it to Empire B, who uses tin in their alloys, and Empire B, who have a bunch of 'this useless easily oxidizing rock' around (Iron) that they then trade to Empire A in return for tin.

Organics
Empire C has a lot of plants around that simply have to much fiberous material in it to be of use in food production for feeding herd animals they have, so they trade it to Empire D, a bunch of herbivores that love the stuff because it is useful in their diets, and Empire D has a bunch of this annoying rabit like creatures that serve no purpose at all other than to grow to large numbers ruin fields of crops, so Empire D captures tons of them and trades them to Empire C, who is thrilled about the whole 'fast food' idea and all the extra hides and bone that will be leftover, because they toss the stuff in vats to be used to make polymer based allows they use in their assorted equipment and ship hulls.

Radioactives.
Empire E loves its radium, but have this odd allergy to irriduim, and a few of their planets has the stuff just laying around, and Empire F happens to have radium to spare, and they need irridium to fuel their industrial proccesses and create their alloys, so they two decide to trade.

Overall...
I don't need a dozen new resources and extra resource GUIs to tell me that kind of stuff is going on.
Last thing we need is Empire A rules the galaxy because they just happened to have gotten lucky with a few planets of stuff they need while everyone else gets only the basics with few or none of the rare stuff Empire A got early on, causing dozens or hundreds of turns before other races find planets with the rare stuff, resulting in a massive power gap, because Empire A either refuses to trade (they end up not needing anything else) or else other empires simply can't offer up anything for trade that Empire A really needs.

I like the idea of habitation dome like Alpha Centauri, and they will be very important in very little planet or domed colony, that is your only colony near that enemy, and you want to let your SY construct fast using more population granted by habitation dome... so you can construct your ultimate dreadnought faster and blow them all!!!

I like also the idea of habitational space station, maybe with hydrophonics farm, or simply Intelligence or Research Center...

Maybe "critical" resources (only little needed, but without it something would not work) could be good increase in complexity. But that would require:
1) Multiple criticals each opening equaly strong possibilities, but different (eg. one great to make lasers, other perfect catalyzator making missile engines better, ...) (And making them equaly good although different would require a lot of work)
and
2) They would have to be distributed in way where each empire has acces to one (or more, but equal number).

That would add replay value (each time you have great something else).
And would form nice objective/reson for wars.

(Of course, this is "simple" instance, it could be more group for each this applying, and later could be discovered new uses for old resources)

hmm interesting idea. The only way I can see how to make it work is if the tech (crystal and organic) define how you play more.
you might ask why? because if mineral A,B and C are your must have and C, D, E and F are waste just think you would only be building crystal ships, not crystal AND reg ship types.

This also means regular type of weapons would be out as well...so a crystal tech wouldnt have the option to have depleted uranium cannons. This means a few more pictures for a crystal basic sensor ect would be added and make them all a little tweeked to provide interesting game play.

This custom racial trait setup would be needed if you wanted some types of minerals and organic plant life to be more coveted by an empire then another.

This would also open up a greater importance on trade and or BPs to get hybrid technology...

An interesting idea, and I understand what you are aiming at. In my opinion, to do what you are proposing would turn SE5 into a very different game, and acceptance or refusal of your concept will largely depend on what people expect from SE5. I myself would prefer a better overall AI and less micromanagement, but that's beside the point here.

If you are looking at planetary economics, you may wish to consider the concept of exhausting resources, too. Think oil. Abundant in the beginning. Then still abundant, but there is high demand and the costs to find and extract it from earth get higher and higher. Eventually, you will get to a point where nothing's left. You will have to decide how much logistics or trade concepts you build in to deal with this issue, or whether you simply leave an empty planet behind and move on.
You could use planetary resource value (logarithmically dropping to zero) and resource production costs to simulate some of the effects, you could expand the tech tree for techs which let you dig out more of the resource (simulated by, say, increasing the value, as soon as a certain tool based on a new tech has been built on the planet).
Of course, you could expand this concept further by inventing replacement resources. Solar energy for oil, as an example. And you could introduce, MOO-(and Earth-!) like, the concept of pollution. Or other changing environmental conditions like temperature, weather, acid rain - our own Earth provides lots of ideas!
I have no idea how much of this could (or should!) be built into SE5, but if you are looking for a more sophisticated economic model, then these are a couple of points to consider.

You should try playing egosofts X2 or X3. Its very manufacturing and resources oriented for a space fighter sim.

Also Stars! Great little 4X game, very old now but still available on CD I believe. Has 3 mineral types and you need a different quantity of each to build anything, including ship components. Even with three commodities it got pretty complex at times but you could program ship movements and loading unloading orders into loops, as you can with the X# games. No battle control in Stars! though, only battle recordings, but fun to watch.

greywolf:
For some reason, limited ressources is not a popular game option... maybe because the AI doesn't know how to handle this, and since it's not played in singleplayer, nobody thinks about using it in multiplayer?

The one thing I have looked forward to is a way to make generic trade goods from stuff you have too much of when you can't build ships because you don't have enough minerals or rads.
That would give my planets something to do when they aren't able to produce their normal stuff.
Generic organic, mineral or rad trade goods to convert into cash/gold kinda like Civilization when you couldn't afford the support costs of more troops your cities could make trade goods for profit. Hey, its not always about combat ships.

But what would you do with this cash/trade goods? You can already trade ressources, the problem in singleplayer is to get the AI to accept those trades... it would be great if you could set up a trade of X ressources for N turns.

I would love if SEV followed the stars method of resources. In stars you have 3 main metals or resources like SEV. If your empire doesn't have the desired metals then you can't build that ship/factory/mine. In stars factories required lots of Guaranuim; if you are low on them. then you can't build them.

What is revolutionary about stars is that each item in the ship costs "resources" or man-hours to build. Those man-hours represent the production capacity of that population on a planet. Factories improve the production capability of that planet. Each factory or mine require a certain # of population to be operational. So population & facilities controlled your production capacity. So you can build very labor intensive components which uses low amount of metals. Such construction will take forever b/c of limited # of man-hours generated by that planet. If using different components that require less labor but way more metals (Ship engines had many variations with this,) will be build a lot faster but at the cost of metals.

This system is very applicable in SEV. Some weapons for example can have very low labor but very high cost (think CSM). Others like APB will have very high labor cost but low material cost since they don't consume much in construction. Others like WMG can be high cost in both cases b/c of the weapon's capability. Such system will lead in more production capable empires having lower maintenance costs for their ships than empire using fast-buildable ships.

In stellar manipulation when constructing Ring & sphere worlds; you can make the generator very labor intensive. But the gravity plates & cables are just very material instensive w/ low labor cost. So building the generator takes 5 times to build over the "raw materials". But the raw materials put a strain on any empire economically or metals wise.

So can you in SEV mod this?? or a similar system?

I think a lot of people that posted never played the games you referenced, Deadlock and Deadlock 2. Great oldies! The implementation it used was really straightforward once one looked at it. Trying to keep everybody happy and working was harder to get a grasp on then how iron was used to make steel or whatever. When it's built in to the game it just seems natural; words just complicate it.

As someone who is finishing up a Bachelors in Economics, I agree fully that the stock economic model is rather boring and that your idea would be a good addition. I wish I could help, but a) I don't even know html and b) the only two courses I've got left would be the most useful; econometrics and research methods. :\

I haven't looked at your GidMod, only played Balance Mod, but if you incorporate anything to improve the depth of the economy and variety of buildings I'll have to check it out. It'd be a nice distraction from camping warp points, and make planets more unique perhaps, making "Mineral planets are the best" a relic of a simpler era..

In your conclusion, you basically set up an empire description similar to that of Japan; imports raw or low value materials, transforms them up the value chain, takes their cut and sends it back. That sort of trade is, presently, impossible. All concepts of relative or absolute advantages are also nonexistant, except of course when heard from a military perspective. Only 1 X in 4X is military related, after all, so there seems plenty of valid room for all this.

I agree that the ecomomic system could use some work, if for any reason to add another variable to the strategy's already in the game, but not to the point of economic conquest. No one wants to lose a war to Mc Donalds, just becuase they know buisiness better than some other race. Not all races would value the same things in the same way or even base their economy the same as humans for that matter. Technology has always been the master of war in the long run, strategy and tactics a very close second, imho.

Personally, i believe a better A.I. trade and treaty system would benefit the game more, and would make an economic war more possible as well as more useful. As far as economics is concerned, More variety would be better, if only to give more options to use in conquest, but not to be the factor of conquest. When that happens, its no longer the same game.

I just recently defeated an A.I. race, by simply attacking a border warp point they were defending, with a samll force of ships to keep thier fleet busy, then sent 6 FF's, cloaked into their home system and devestated their planets one by one, hopeing this action would draw the fleet or some of it away from the front to defend thier planets, and allowing my fleet to bust through the warp point. But the poor A.I., refused to leave the warp point, even to defend their home system, so now they have no home system, no supplies or ordanance comming in, and i no longer need a large fleet to defeat them, just a few ships, and some minor battles to use up what supplies they have in fleet. Its just a matter of time now, becuase thier war is over and they dont even know it yet.

Perhaps if they had a resource i needed and could threaten to eliminate it them selves to prevent me from attacking them for fear of losing the resource forever, things would have gone differently. Being the only ones with the particular type of resource i need, or being the only ones who know how to extract it or process it to make it valuable thru some technology only they have or could achieve, then all would have gone differently, opened up a trade war, espionage war, etc., etc.

Imo, having differnt lvls of, say mineral values,or types means nothing when your planet is turned to glass, but if those things open new techs, and better trade, then they become more useful, other wise its just clutter til someone parks a fleet of battleships in orbit and introduces you to the glass and dust technology. just my opinion.