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Accueil » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

Can someone explain the political value settings?

Image de Antarian
Soumis par Antarian le Dim, 2007-11-04 11:47 SE:V MODs

Here are the values for the Norak in Captain Kwok's balance mod, for example. What kind of AI personality can I expect with these values?

lng_Politics_Anger_Severity_From_War_Status := 5
set lng_Politics_Anger_Severity_From_Treaty_Status := -2
set lng_Politics_Anger_Severity_From_Known_Status := 1
set lng_Political_Message_Score_Percent_For_Demanding_Tone := 70
set lng_Political_Message_Score_Percent_For_Pleading_Tone := 140
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Accept_Treaty := 50
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Counter_Treaty := 60
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Accept_Alliance := 40
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Counter_Alliance := 50
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Accept_Gift := 100
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Trade := 70
set lng_Politics_Min_Anger_To_Declare_War := 85
set lng_Politics_Min_Anger_To_Break_Treaty := 70
set lng_Politics_Max_Anger_To_Propose_Treaty := 50
set lng_Politics_Trade_Value_Percent_For_Enemy := 120
set lng_Politics_Trade_Value_Percent_For_Friend := 90
set lng_Politics_Min_Score_Pct_Diff_To_Surrender := 350
set lng_Politics_Min_Score_Pct_Diff_To_Give_Enemy_Gift := 200
set lng_Politics_Min_Score_Pct_Diff_To_Give_Friend_Gift := 150
set lng_Politics_Min_Score_Pct_Diff_To_Accept_Enemy_Demand := 180
set lng_Politics_Min_Score_Pct_Diff_To_Accept_Friend_Demand := 140
set lng_Politics_Max_Concurrent_Requests_To_Honor_From_One_Player := 2
set lng_Politics_Max_Time_To_Honor_A_Request := 10
set lng_Politics_Percent_Chance_To_Propose_Treaty := 20

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Image de Ashbery76
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Ashbery76 le Dim, 2007-11-04 12:09

I would like to know how to restrict wars or at least make relations worsen with agressive powers much slower than present.

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Image de Ashbery76
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Ashbery76 le Dim, 2007-11-04 18:23

Will or is there an option for the A.I to seek peace when it's involved in too many wars?

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Dim, 2007-11-04 18:27

These are the basic personalities of the stock AIs in the mod:

Friendly:
Abbidon, EEE, Phong

Neutral/Moderate:
Cue Cappa, Drushocka, Norak, Terran, Ukra'Tal

Aggressive:
Jraenar, Sithrak, Xi'Chung

Xenophobic:
Amon'krie, Sergetti, Xiati

---

Here is a repost from SE.net on AI Anger in the mod:

I know a number of you wonder about the AI's moods are generated. Here is it how it typically works...

The AI actually doesn't remember things in terms of anger, but rather in terms of severity. The severity of events/actions are translated into an anger value against the other players each turn. An event/action that is greater in severity will reside in the AI's turn-to-turn memory for a longer duration than events that are less severe. They will also have a greater effect on the anger level.

There are a number of factors that are considered by the AI in order to generate their anger level:

Log Events
- There are no events that reduce anger
- Bad events like combat or sabotage: +Anger

Messages
- Good messages like accept request or treaty: -Anger
- Bad messages like declaring war: +Anger

Political state
- War: +Anger
- Known: +Anger or -Anger depending on type of AI
- Treaty: -Anger
I know a number of you wonder about the AI's moods are generated. Here is it how it typically works:

The AI actually doesn't remember things in terms of anger, but rather in terms of severity. The severity of events/actions are translated into an anger value against the other players each turn. An event/action that is greater in severity will reside in the AI's turn-to-turn memory for a longer duration than events that are less severe. They will also have a greater effect on the anger level.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Dim, 2007-11-04 18:27

Ashbery76 wrote:
Will or is there an option for the A.I to seek peace when it's involved in too many wars?

There's some indirect modifiers.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Ashbery76
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Ashbery76 le Lun, 2007-11-05 13:07

I would to know where they are? I think it does the A.I no favours when they are fighting wars on 10 fronts like the aggressive races do.The A.I should try to play like a human and attack piecemeal,they would get more success.

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Image de Antarian

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Antarian le Mer, 2007-11-14 19:00

Yes, why so cryptic, Kwok? Or do you not really understand it yourself?

Right now, playing your balance mod, trying to be the 'Goody-Goody' Feds, I which means giving gifts out to people and trying to establish good trading treaties with every race nearly every turn, I still watched them all grow slowly madder and madder at me until all but 2 are now at war with me, and it's been going on for ages, even though I don't attack them.

How do I modify a neutral race to try to stay 'meek and out of the action', and to go crazy happy over any gifts they receive? It makes playing a diplomatic race nearly impossible.

Ah well, time to fire up another game as the Klingons.... Eye-wink

All that is done before the naked stars is remembered

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Mer, 2007-11-14 20:01

Some empires will become increasingly angry over time because you may be friendly with their enemies. The degree of this effect depends somewhat on the AI's personality.

Another drift factor is that the AI tends to remembered negative events for longer periods of time.

Although some of this has been changed with the upcoming v1.12. The main difference is the introduction of "target priorities" for the AI players. Each AI now assigns a priority to the other empires or alliances, based on political status, proximity to each other, and relative empire strength. The typical result is that an AI will either target weaker players that are nearby or stronger players that is has poor relations with. Players of approximately equal strength and moderate relations are kept at the status quo. The general goal is to focus the AI's aggression against fewer empires at a time. It also mellows out the above mentioned effect, by focusing more on relations with their critical targets as opposed to all other relations.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Antarian

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Antarian le Jeu, 2007-11-15 12:08

Where is the personality number documented? I've only ever seen '1's in the files, and I thought it was strictly related to what text they say in the messages file?

Can you provide more info on this value? I've been leaving all my neutral / peaceful races at 1, and setting all my aggressive races to 5 (I"m also re-writing the message text to match each empire, god what a chore)

All that is done before the naked stars is remembered

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Jeu, 2007-11-15 12:30

In theory, the personality group field in the [RaceName]_AI_General is supposed to be used by the game setup routine to ensure a mix of personality types as described by the values in settings.txt (the random personality group values). The values are never reference in the scripts and so have absolutely no effect on AI behaviour or their script files.

However, in the AI scripts, there is a group of constants that are used prescribed for the AI's category, which is akin to the idea of the personality groups described above. Recently in the Balance Mod, I did match the constants for the AI's category to the personality group as follows:

1 - Peaceful
2 - Neutral/Moderate
3 - Aggressive
4 - Xenophobic

If the random personality group types are indeed working (which appears not to be the case) then you should get a distribution of AI players that is similar to the chance values in settings.txt for each category/personality.

So in short, the only real way to influence a custom race's behaviour is to edit a [RaceName]_Main_Script file, adjusting the various settings that are contained in that file. Speaking specifically about BM AI, the AI category is the most broad modifier for behaviour, while there's a slew of booleans that control specific ship type usage and a bunch of political values that form the basis of AI diplomatic discussions. You may want to wait about a week or so for the v1.12 files, as the incorporation of alliance diplomacy has brought on a lot of changes to these files.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Antarian

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Antarian le Jeu, 2007-11-15 16:25

Having a treaty with another empire should not generate so much hostility. This punishes trading empires from having too many trading treaties and trying to remain peaceful. A xenophobic empire that refused to have treaties with anyone would end up having better relations with all! Stupid.

All that is done before the naked stars is remembered

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Jeu, 2007-11-15 16:33

It doesn't. Having a treaty with an enemy of the other player is what leads to hostility - which I would classify a normal reaction. If you have a treaty with one of their friends, then that will make them less angry.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Ashbery76
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Ashbery76 le Ven, 2007-11-16 19:52

Why do empires send you messages to break bonds with a so called hated enemy that the empire has no relations with.If that empire was a war I could understand,but it is'nt.

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Ven, 2007-11-16 23:50

A non-treaty empire is treated as an enemy. I can revise it though to just check for war status.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Psieye

Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par Psieye le Sam, 2007-11-17 08:21

Mmm... but still, it's perfectly possible to go have a big scuffle with another empire without declaring war. Unless you have very fast War Declarations... ah well it's still more likely that a zero-treaty empire isn't in combat.

And yes, trying to be friends with damn well everyone is usually worthy of distrust and hostility. Sure it's a nice ideal and works well between individuals, but when so much is at stake, trying to trade with everyone while they fight each other shouldn't go down well - you (from their perspective) just might be sitting out and milking them all to take everything over at the end~

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par madman22 le Sam, 2007-11-17 16:53

In real life, having treaties or being friendly with a nation (empire) that others do not like will make them more hostile towards you. So I think the game is pretty accurate on this. My question is are some AI races predisposed to hate/like other AI races? By the game's description, the Eee and Druschocka should be hostile towards one another. I am looking for some fairly divisive lines in the game, so if you are at war with the Xiati, you can establish a helpful relationship with say the Norak.

"We are the Vahl, resistance is...welcomed"

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Re: Can someone explain the political value settings?

Soumis par pieman le Mer, 2008-02-20 00:27

This is all too black and white. If you compare how nation states relate to each other...there are so many shades of gray. Political clout, economic clout, military clout and even idologicial stance all factor in on how other nation states relate to each other. If you are a heavy hitter in one or more of those areas....the other nation states are a lot more tolerant of you. I've only been playing SEV for a short while...but the AI seems VERY suspect in this area...and while the various mods (I'm currently playing BM 1.13) have done a good job of dealing with other AI issues...this seems to be one that is tougher to fix/improve.

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