Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas. |
I've been thinking about Ring Worlds and Sphere Worlds, and it seems making them is just plane lopsided in SE V when it comes to cost, causing me to ponder assorted ideas.
Anyways, be warned, this is a long post...
First of all, as more or less everyone knows, you need an insane amount of research just to get access to the tech
Second, based on the 'cost' to make one, it's way to cheap.
(you can apparently build a 50 room mansion using a box of toothpics according to SE V. 
)
It would seem to me that 5/10 each of Cable/Plating components for a Ring/Sphere World is... simply not enough. A Ring World alone should require a massive input of resources that could possibly cripple a 'small' empire for a short period of time, and a sphere world should cost more than just double that of a ring world.
Another possible factor, planets/celestial bodies.
It would be interesting (although probably a bit to complex to program) to have to have a certain 'requirement' of planetar/celestial bodies within the 6 hex radius a Ring/Sphere World is made in, instead of just increasing the Plating/Cable needed.
If there wasn't enough, it would have to be compensated by something else, a sort of "Mega-Scale Construction Resources" component, counting towards what is needed, being 1000kt with a description of "Contains additional construction materials for large scale construction projects".
This would better reflect the truely massive scale of these monumental projects.
On a related idea that popped up in another thread, a 'new' component for making Ring/Sphere Worlds, a sort of "Mega-Scale Construction Facility".
It would be a 2000kt component, and it's base description would be something like "Houses specialized crew and equipment needed to construct and maintain an Artificial World."
Need 1 for a Ring World, and 2 or more for a Sphere World.
Although, it would probably just be simpler to add in the new components/requirements, such as 1 Constructon Facility and 10 Construction Resources for a Ring World, and 5 Constructon Facilities and 50-100 Construction Resources for a Sphere World.
Might also be neat to have a 'construction time' for Ring/Sphere Worlds. It seems like those things should take years to make, and not a single month. Create a "mega-construction platform" of sorts when construction starts, giving rival empires a chance to move in and hinder, stop or even destroy the project and stop it before it is finished, or even attempt to capture some of the ships with the needed components before they are 'used up' in the construction, and either apply it to their own large projects, analyze them for some of the tech, or even just to recycle them for resources..
Edit:
On a final side note, it also seems that Ring/Sphere Worlds have to little capacity when compared to a Huge planet. Shouldn't they have a much higher facility/population capacity?
Regarding More Shipyards...
You may already know this;
v1.52 Changelog
6. Removed - The hard coded requirement for only one space yard per planet.
Not exactly what Wade suggested, but good enough for me. 
Techno-babble easily explains how to build RW/SW's on the cheap . It does boggle the mind trying to figure out how one could build such a structure for real, doesn't it?
-----
StarCraft 2, it's about damn time!
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
Cool! Thanks! I forgot that I once scanned that item in the change log! Must...wait...for...the...upgrade/patch.
There are some cool sites concerning Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres that address various issues.
http://www.merzo.net/index.html
http://www.coldnorth.com/owen/game/startrek/relic/sphere.htm
http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/dysonFAQ.html
Many others too! Try Wikipedia and Google.
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
Neat, technical stats! That's what I've wanted to see, thanks! My mind is no longer boggled about RW/DS's, but Galactic Dyson Spheres, hoo-boy that's awe-inspiring! I recommend the last link to anyone wanting some technical stats on these wonders.
-----
StarCraft 2, it's about damn time!
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
My take on how to handle a ring world better with something similar to existing mechanics is to treat each hex's segment of the ring as if it were a separate planet. This allows for more facilities (including normally one-per-planet ones) in an easily understood way, and also opens up exciting options like different ownership and/or environments for different segments.
The only real bit of "special" code would be that ideally, it would be possible to move ground troops between adjacent segment-worlds without having to use a troopship. You could handwave, however, that the barriers between the different environment types extend out past vacuum anyway, and are easier to launch into space to get around than any other way.
I've been wanting to set up a "scenario" game eventually that features a lost precursor ringworld as the centerpiece. It would have fairly low scores for resource extraction, since there's nothing there except what was put on it to make it more planet-like; perhaps Mineral 10%, Organic 50% (plenty of plant life, but no oil reserves, etc.), Radioactive 10%. The existing sentient population would either be none, or very small amounts of low-tech natives; but there would be huge high-tech shipyards and all sorts of nifty alien tech represented by pre-existing research labs and marking each segment as a "ruins", waiting for whoever finds and exploits them. For fairness and variety, the different segments should be split up amongst the different sorts of worlds and atmospheres, presumably because the precursors were either themselves varied, or were intending to use the ringworld as a zoo or ark.
Note that while both conceptually and visually this works better for a ringworld than a sphereworld, you could fake it by having the planet-segments have considerably more space for the sphereworld version, or perhaps by having them fill the hexes in toward the sun (representing the overhead and underneath sections of the sphere).
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
One thing that I currently don't like about Ring worlds and Dyson Sphere's is how you can mine from them, I think that a Manufactured stellar size object should have a value of zero for both minerals and radiative, But a High Organic amount.
If I could I would have the Dyson Sphere use all the Planets in the system, and leave a few small - medium sized astroid fields. The scraps left over from construction.
The amount of matter used is astronomical, it would be more cost effective for a civilization to first use any local available materials first than convert for the remainder.
Like the Idea Jdunson had about breaking ring worlds and Sphere worlds in to multiple parts, But I would Like to keep the ability to select it as a whole as well.
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
Are you a fan of the older game Mission Critical?
It's the only thing I can think of relating to a Dyson Sphere being made with Nanotech, although the timelime has a 150 year gap, and I don't remember them actually mentioning how long it took to make.
I have read up on a few things relating to Ring/Sphere Worlds before, including the original Dyson's Sphere concept by Freeman Dyson.
They are truely massive constructs.
With the Ring World from Larry Nivel's "Ringworld", they have some technology that is likely well beyond the tech in SE, such as the portable teleporter pads, stasis pods, and teleporters that seem to have intergalactice ranges based on my experience from the game "Return to Ringworld" that was based on the setting.
With the traditional "Dyson Sphere", which is just a huge collection of individual pieces of massive quantities, it could still take a long time to build, even if the pieces were only a few meters thick.
I would agree that nanotech could greatly speed things up, but no other tech in the game really portrays any sort of nanotech at all. If one could build a Ring/Sphere World in a month due to nanotech, why is it that planets can't simply churn out huge ships so long as resources are available?
Here is a video from the game Alpha Centauri, which plays when you first build a nanotech factory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKcEwUcVBHs
That's a good representation of one angle of how nanotech could work.
If that kind of 'production' could be achieved in SE in general, it would be mind boggling. A colony ship could carry a dump truck full of nanotech canisters, drop them on the planet, wait a few days, and then land to a fully built up and fully stocked colony with housing, factories and farms all ready to be occupied and used.
A problem with the Energy to Matter conversion part is that no such tech is apparently available to a race unless it has Crystalline Tech.
And yet, the overall "space" a Sphere World could provide...
Earth (a "Medium" planet?) has 510 million square km of surface area, and the Dyson Sphere at one AU has 600 million times that?
Thats a rough That's roughly 306*10^15 square km (306 followed by 15 zeros)
SE V would probably need thing you mentioned of just showing a facility pic and then a number of how many there are (maybe a few for different level facilities), and since the overall population capacity would also be greatly increased, the files regulating production bonuses from population size would have to be redone, to account for what a population of possible hundreds of billions or even trillions of people could achieve as a labor force.
Hello, rditto48801.
I never knew of the 'Mission Critical' game until I read your post and researched it on Wikipedia. It' a good story. Thanks for reminding me of those Alpha Centauri videos! That nanotech one is one of my favorites from then.
( Note to forum designer: Clicking "Quote" should put this at the end of the thread. Clicking "Reply" is good inserted under the target post.)
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
hhmm regarding building a ring world the descriptions do give a fair idea. i.e hyperdense cables strung round equator and coverd in gravity plating, the plating has artificial gravity obviosly which could be turned up very high, this would very quickly attract free floating matter from the sun and nearby celestial bodies to coat the plating in world stuff.
the gravity could then be lowerd to the desired level for habitation.
of course would take more than a month for the plants to grow un less using GM crops...
Re: Ring/Sphere Worlds: Cost and related random ideas.
Hello. I disagree with you. I assume science fiction, future technology exponentionally progressed, and imagination when accepting the game's current processes.
I imagine that nanites and energy to matter conversion is involved in the building procceses. That these required elements we build for Ring Worlds and Sphere Worlds include "packets" of nanites that self replicate using energy to matter to form more matter for the processes of construction. Imagining that this takes place in one month is easy! Building these "packets" takes time though.
The one concern that I slightly agree on is the matter of facility spaces for these worlds. But game play and balance issues have to be adressed also; so, they are reasonable.
*Perhaps the number of facility spaces should be increased, even significantly. Each type of structure could have one portrait/icon with a number after it showing the quantity on that world.
I do think that more than one ship yard should be allowed on planets, especially on these worlds! Perhaps if more than one ship is built at the same time then the world's production just gets divided and slows the ship construction process, similiar to research.
-Wade