DevnullMod 1.0.0 Initial Release

I will try it

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is A.I supported?

Wow! Im a huge fan of your mod from SEIV. The fact your base work is taken from Kwoks Balance Mod should make yours very interesting. I'll try it once the new patch comes out and you update this. All I have to figure out is how to get around the problem of the game not remembering fogged colonies. That's the only real hangup this game has for me... but it's a huge one.

i don't know if someone else have that problem but my shipsets appear in double , it doesn't happen with the balance mod , is it a bug or what ?

Perhaps the mod has "allow main shipsets" turned on but still includes shipsets, so the stock shipsets are being displayed as well as the mod folder's shipsets?

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

That is the cause of the issue.

It should be set to no, if it's going to include it's own empire folders.

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Anyone wanna start a multiplayer game with this mod? It looks interesting...

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Its pretty much identical to SE4, PBW and all.

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I'll jump in. my other game is Frozen in time with a combat error as we wait on the new patch.

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How about compatibility with FQM mod?

I'm really getting excited waiting for an updated version for 1.54 plus the new FQM beta!

When are you setting up the PBW game?

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Fyron's adding the mod right now... you wanna set up the game or should I?

BTW, have you tested the orbital habitat thingys? I was testing some other stuff and happened to put that ability on the SY facility to see if it would work, and it didn't do anything... so I doubt it will work on a component! You never know, though...

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Check the mod list.

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SE5 Devnull #1 is now open for players!

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

ekolis wrote:

SE5 Devnull #1 is now open for players!

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious :P

I was thinking that since this game could be called a test game. We should make it a bit easier to progress faster in order to test the features, components, etc.

3 Starting planets.
Low tech cost
allow tech trading through treaties
maybe even start with large tech points base

This is again to facilitate testing giving us more access to everything at a faster pace.

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That seems reasonable... Devnullicus, what do you think?
Though I wonder who would trade tech in a 3 player game... (I'm not counting on finding more players - I've never had good luck with starting large games! )

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Hummmm.....I also see the benefits of a bit slower start to gage how fast you can expand. I lean to more tech to jumpstart things, but can do either.

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Hmm, Devnullicus listed his shipset on PBW as Toltayan... There is no such shipset in SE5... Hmmm......

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So, starting tech at Medium 500,000 points, Tech cost to Low and High starting resources.

This should make the turns progress faster.

I may have found a bug last night or I just never noticed this before. When creating my race the Colony tech did not have the one i choose as grayed out. It would let me spend points to raise that tech. IE...i choose Rock and it was not grayed out on the Tech spending screen.

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I'm agreeable with changing the starting tech/tech-cost/resources, but keep in mind that anyone who has already created an empire might want to load it up and spend their newfound tech points by the time I download all the empire files! I'll post a new GSU file shortly... also, with 4 players it seems reasonable to use a Small galaxy, right?

Yes, I have noticed the issue with the colony techs - perhaps you could email Aaron about it? It's pretty minor but it has led to players wasting their starting tech points on their native colony tech! Rather than having it grayed out though, perhaps it should just start at level 1 instead of 0... only some mods have single-level colony techs! Perhaps you could also mention the fact that in all-tech games (at least in SE4 - not sure about SE5) that if colony tech has more than 1 level, you still get only level 1 of your native tech!

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Is it possible to make fighter hulls that have inherrantly different characteristics for performance and function. For example: at Fighter Level 1 you get 15kt fighters that has the same speed modifier as any other design. Whether I add Direct fire or Missles its' basically the same fighter under the hood.

What I want to see is at Level 1 you get the normal fighter at 15kt and say a Bomber at 25kt. The catch is that the bomber class has a reduced speed modifier in comparison to the 15kt fighter. Even if they both had the same number of engines the fighter class would be significantly faster than the bomber class IN COMBAT. The fighter class can also have a larger Defense bonus over the bomber class while they each maintain parity in attack. Oh, and the bomber class would have a nice advantage in structure points allowing for it to fulfill its roll as an attack bomber.

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Splitting them would be ideal making it much easier.

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I don't see why you need different hull types; component choices should be what makes it a "fighter" or a "bomber." Its especially easy if you implement some sort of QNP...

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Because, a Fighter and a Bomber have different performance characteristics and load out options. Fighter is sleek and agile. Bomber is ponderous and cumbersome. If you are using the same Frame to represent two VASTLY different units it leaves a lot to be desired. The fighter load-out works all well in the current set up, but its woefully lacking in the Bomber category. There is not enough room to properily loadout the bomber and make it actually effective. I hear you thinking, "Drop engines to make room for the weapons," but that is not the answer. The bomber frames needs to be larger to support at least a standard loadout and the performance characteristics need tweaked to represent its ponderous nature. IE....a standard Bomber at level 1 should be able to hold: Cockpit, Life Support, Heavy weapon, Max Enigines and 1 armor component. That seems like a lot when you picture it on a Fighter that can scream accross the screen with high defenses, but this will be on a Bomber with much lower performance characteristics.

1. The bomber needs to be at least 50% under the fighters standard defense ratio.
2. The bombers accelleration(sp?) and turning needs cut 50% as well.
3. The bomber needs a boost in structual points to represent its hardiness.

I'm a strong proponent of Fleet actions with Yen and Yang characteristics. You can't have all one type of anything in a battle and expect to win. IE...all frigates, all carriers, all battleships, etc. I would like to think a fleet that was well balanced between those points would ALWAYS win over a fleet that was/is not diverse.

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All of that can be (and has been in se4 mods in the past) accomplished with clever component setup, no extra hulls necessary.

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Erm.... why? They are both still fighters; one is just a little bulkier than the other. Going to make different kinds of weapons that can target large drones but not small ones? Large satellites but not small ones?

If you want a distinction between large and small fighters, just make the large ones not automatically better. A trade-off for large hull size is all that is necessary. New hull types are overkill. Let the players use them how they will; shoe-horning forced roles into forced hulls is heavy-handed.

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You are missing my point.

If a Fighter Design starts at 15kts. YOU CANNOT PUT ROCKETPODS ON IT WITHOUT REDUCING THE NUMBER OF ENGINES! It ends up with a speed of 5 on the strategic map which is completely unrealistic. Who in there right mind would build a bomber that can't reach its target in a timely fashion?

A BOMBER IS BIGGER THAN A FIGHTER!!
A BOMBER HAS A SLOWER ACCELERATION CURVE!
A BOMBER HAS LOWER MANUERVABILTY!
A BOMBER CARRIES A HEAVIER PAYLOAD!
A BOMBER IS MORE HEAVILY ARMORED/SHIELDED!

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I think that would be too much work for not a lot of return. We just need to have the hulls in different sizes with difference performance characteristics.

A frigate with 300kt's to work with you can get by with one hull type to make multi-role ships, etc. BUT, when you have 15kts to work with you don't have a lot of options for creating multi-role units.

Technically, i would like to see more class variants that allow you to pick the performance characteristics of the ship. For example you could make each class of ships into 3 subtypes.

Light Frigate - Higher acc curve, reduced tonnage, lower structure, faster, increased defenses.
Medium Frigate - what we use now as the Median.
Heavy Frigate - Lower acc curve, more tonnage, higher structure, slower, reduced defenses.

The more i think about it the more I like adding ship subtypes for creating specific ships roles and just to have variety in your fleets.

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Hey Devnullicus - it's not intentional that small SY facilities repair facilities *faster* than the regular SY facilities, is it?

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Huuummmm.....the more I think about the Ship sub classes the more i like it.

Ideas......Make the classes vary by 50% from the Median(Standard).

Light is 50% of standard tonnage, 50% more defense, 50% more accel curve, 50% more nimble.

Standard stays the same.

Heavy is 50% larger than standard tonnage, 50% less defenses, 50% slower accel curve and 50% less nimble.

Light Frig would be 150kt
Standard Frig would be 300kt
Heavy Frig would be 450kt

Each subclass will change as the Tech changes as well in the same ranges.

I picture it as a Race building on an existing class that is already "Tried and True" versus building a new protoype that still has to go thru pains of fleshing out the systems, etc.

It shouldn't be too hard to code with only some formula changes and just use the same artwork.

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Isn't that a bit big a deviation? If frigates range from 150kT-450kT, what the heck are destroyers, light cruisers, cruisers, etc. going to be?

Or are you going for something along the lines of MOO2, where ships ranged from 25kT (frigates) to 1200kT (doomstars)? Or the Capship Mod, where ships range from 50kT (corvettes) to 2000kT (dreadnoughts)? That might be interesting if you had some overlap... a "heavy frigate" might actually be larger but still more agile than a "light destroyer", but the heavy frigate would require more research or cost more minerals or have higher maintenance cost or something?

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

ekolis wrote:

Isn't that a bit big a deviation? If frigates range from 150kT-450kT, what the heck are destroyers, light cruisers, cruisers, etc. going to be?

Or are you going for something along the lines of MOO2, where ships ranged from 25kT (frigates) to 1200kT (doomstars)? Or the Capship Mod, where ships range from 50kT (corvettes) to 2000kT (dreadnoughts)? That might be interesting if you had some overlap... a "heavy frigate" might actually be larger but still more agile than a "light destroyer", but the heavy frigate would require more research or cost more minerals or have higher maintenance cost or something?

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious :P

My line of thought is taken from modern construction techniques. Its not uncommon to use a Base product to build upon and end up with radically different Endings while using the same starting location. A big cost in most new products is the Design and Shakedown of a new model. By using a existing (Proven) model you can expand on its base to form different variations of the same Proven Design.

I'll use another example: Computer Cases and Motherboards. They all are a base product that can be VERY different in the end result. From low end to highend coupled with options to overclock, etc. you started with the same base, but ended with a radically different computer in the sense.

There will be overlapping in the Hulls, but a Heavey Frigate should have a lower Performance characteristic than the Standard and Light Destroyer. I used the 50% as a starting point, but we should make sure that the Heavy Versions don't perform as well as the Higher Level Light and Standard versions.

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Light/Medium/Heavy version of every ship hull is excessive, and generally overkill. You can achieve the desired results with a much smaller set of hulls.

PS: There is no need for the shouting.

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How can you outfit a bomber and keep its movement at least 10 on the main map? That is my biggest bone of contention.

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Any plans to update the mod to work with latest patch?

I can answer that one for him, "Yes"

We are in a PBW game with Devnull testing the first version. Here is the intial thoughts/changes planned:

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Keep us posted

Groovy Baby Yeah!

Per Devnull....Status update.

I really wanted to do some things with the new formulas Is_Planet_Domed and get_empire_ability_facility_count, but they seem to be broken. Is_Planet_Domed ALWAYS returns false, and get_empire_ability_facility_count gives an error that it's an unrecognized formula when I try to use it. *sigh*


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Umm, that last one sounds like a bug you copied over from Balance Mod - small APB's are SUPPOSED to be able to target fighters and troops; Kwok just made them not target those unit types because he searched for "Small Anti" when changing the "Small Anti - Matter Torpedo" and didn't notice he was working on the wrong entry

Or is this intentional to make small APB's not able to fire in ground combat, since realistically they would act all screwy in an atmosphere (probably blow up or something)? If so you might want to remove Building and Weapon Platform from the target list as well!

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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Devnull updates.......

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Looking forward to this. Keep up the great work.

Also looking forward to seeing this.
I think Crystalin Torpedos should replace the anti-matter torps mainly because the name difference from the Cap Ship Missile would confuse people. "I researched missiles and got a torpedo, huh?"

Another update from Devnull..........

-DONE: Space Yard Components repair all facilities in system instead of sector
-DONE: monolith facilities based off all three resource techs, not stellar manip
-DONE: base ships should not be available until dreadnought level 4
-DONE: Fix psionic and temporal weapons to decrease size with tech (not sure why these got missed originally)
--DONE: Temporal Shifter
--DONE: Shield Accelerator
--DONE: Temporal Tachyon Cannon
--DONE: Weapon Phase Accelerator
--DONE: Alloy Burner Missile
--DONE: Telekinetic Projector
--DONE: Small Telekinetic Projector
--DONE: Mental Flailer
--DONE: Allegiance Subverter
--DONE: Psychic Whiplash
--DONE: Mental Singularity Generator
--DONE: Stupifier
-DONE: Space Ports significantly enhanced
--DONE: some supply generation/distribution (Enhanced by Resupply tech)
--DONE: ship/unit maint cost modifiers within a limited radius of planet
--DONE: some mineral/organic/radioactive resource storage (Enhanced by Storage tech)
--DONE: basic scanning (enhanced by Sensors tech)
--DONE: Enhance migration within the system (limited radius around space port planet)
--DONE: Make population on the planet unhappy
--DONE: only 1 per system
--DONE: Add Trade Modifier based on how many Space Ports the empire has
-DONE: habitats no longer stack correctly in 1.58 (nor do research labs/intel outposts) - limited to 1 per vehicle (*sigh*)
-DONE: Add Type for Habitat Base and Research/Intel Base
-DONE: Split up Stellar Manipulation
--DONE: Ionic Manipulation 5 (storms): req Astrophysics 2
--DONE: Warp Point Manipulation 6 (warp points, warp weapons): astrophysics 3, physics 3
--DONE: World Manipulation 6 (worlds): astrophysics 4, planetary engineering 1?
---DONE: Artificial Worlds 3 (ring/sphere worlds): req World Manip 6, astrophysics 5
--DONE: Stellar Manipulation 6 (stars, nebulae, black holes): astrophysics 5
-FIXED: Troops could have unlimited engines
-DONE: double supply storage
-DONE: decreased size of research and intel facilities
-DONE: habitats should provide more space
-DONE: Resupply depots much smaller and provide less (idea is to make them quick to build and to scale the number to the system traffic)
-DONE: Add resupply station component which distributes supplies within a radius, but does not generate them.
-DONE: re-examine hull sizes for cruiser+ (ala BM 1.11)
-DONE: Re-evaluate facility repair rates for space yards and facilities
-DONE: Space Yards reduced to 300kT base tonnage
-DONE: integrate and re-number new component pictures from BM1.10
-DONE: reduce size of research facility
-DONE: Re-evaluate engines
--DONE: Engines increased to 5 levels instead of 3
--DONE: Drastically cut the amount of supplies stored by engines. Originally, the amount of supplies was intended to be a bonus for increasing the engine level, but this is done more effectively by the size decrease. The reduction in engine supply storage is intended to make ships rely more extensively on supply storage, supply ships, resupply depots, solar collectors, etc and to help with game balance.
-DONE: Small Rocket Pods, small torpedoes and small Anti-proton beam no longer target fighters/troops
-DONE: Small Ripper Beam
-DONE: integrate racial components into normal techs and make non-racial techs (hulls, etc) unavailable
--DONE: Regular hulls not available to races with organic or crystallurgy racial traits.
--DONE: Organic and Crystalline Hulls available immediately to races with those traits.
--DONE: Temporal Spaceyard available with racial trait and improves with Space Yard tech
--DONE: Organic and Crystal race facilties/components no longer use racial tech. Instead they are integrated into normal techs.
--DONE: Organic races no longer have normal armor available - they only have organic armor.
--DONE: Organic Races have only half the shield damage points of normal races.
--DONE: added Organic Master Computer with integrated boarding defense and self-destruct. Replaces Master Computer for Organic Races
--DONE: Plasma Charge and Hyper - Plasma Bolt are now universally available (research Plasma Weapons to get them)
--DONE: Acid Globule, Small Acid Globule, and Enveloping Acid Globule are now universally available (research Chem 2 + Acid Weapons to get them).
--DONE: Acid Weapons penetrate armor at a 50% rate and also do 150% damage to the armor itself
--DONE: Crystal Races have 1.5 x the shield damage points of normal races.
--DONE: Crystal races no longer have normal armor available - they only have crystalline armor.
--DONE: Psychic and Temporal Technology eliminated - facilities/components now use normal tech
--DONE: Psychic Weapon Technology now hangs off of Biology 2
--DONE: Temporal Weapon Technology now hangs off of Physics 2
--DONE: Religious Technology now hangs off of Psychology 1
-DONE: Modified Racial Trait Costs
--DONE: Organic = 3000
--DONE: Crystalline = 3000
--DONE: Temporal = 3000
--DONE: Psychic = 2500
--DONE: Deeply Religious = 2000
-DONE: more meaningful population increments (ala Gritty Galaxy)
-DONE: Split Freighters into their own Tech Area
-DONE: Integrate Fyron's Quadrant Mod 5.0 Beta 12. DevnullMod now also requires downloading the multimedia pack from http://mm.spaceempires.net/
-DONE: Evaluate and integrate BM 1.11 changes
--DONE: Hull Construction
--DONE: Engines
--DONE: Space Yard
-DONE: add 3 levels to stellar harnessing (3 more levels of Solar Collectors and 1 more Solar Sail)
-DONE: re-evaluate temporal sensors
--DONE: Temporal Sensors completely replace Tachyon sensors for Temporal races (which are no longer available to Temporal races)
--DONE: increased sight range to match basic sensors at same sensors tech level
--DONE: added a small to-hit and defense modifier to Temporal Sensors in a new group so they stack with other types. This emulates the sensors' ability to "see ahead" in time and predict enemy actions better than normal sensors
-DONE: re-evaluate psychic receptors
--DONE: Psychic Receptors now available at sensors 1. This component has all the functionality of and totally replaces Basic Sensors, Combat Sensors, ECM, Tachyon Sensors, and Long-Range Scanners for psychic races
--DONE: added small psychic receptors for fighters/troops. Combines and replaces small comhat sensors and small ECM in one (1kT) component for psychic races
--DONE: psychic races cannot research Defense Systems (no need)
-DONE: Temporal Races get a bonus to-hit for all point-defense weapons to emulate their ability to "see ahead" in time and predict incoming missile/fighter actions
-DONE: Temporal races get +1 movement to all space vehicles
-DONE: re-evaluate supply and ordnance vats
--DONE: quantum reactors no longer available to races with Organic Manipulation (Supply Vats replace them and are available earlier to those races)
--DONE: tweaked supply/ordnance amounts generated to be more balanced.
--DONE: lowered size of supply vats so that solar collectors don't totally outclass them.
-DONE: Added Mobile Munitions Factory (need Resupply 11) so that normal races can generate ordnance. Large component that uses supplies to create ordnance each turn.
-DONE: added differing component pictures for different armor levels (regular, plating, small) for regular, organic, and crystalline armor
-DONE: Starbase and Space Station defense penalty should get better with higher tech
-DONE (for now): Rework how breathable/domed planets work. Can't get this to work as I wanted it to because the Is_Planet_Domed() formula doesn't seem to work.
- In a future SE5 patch, I'll look at this again to see if it will work. In the meantime, I've always felt that domed planets are too small, so
- I've increased their size somewhat. If I can get Is_Planet_Domed() to work in a future SE5 patch, the sizes may change again.
--DONE: domed planet have 1/2 usable size of breathable
--DONE: domed planets hold 1/5 population (was 1/4)
--NOT DONE: facilities cost much more on domed planets (doesn't work because, according to Aaron, Is_Planet_Domed() won't work in cost formulas - only Abilities)
--NOT DONE: Domed planet facilities have 4 x maintenance cost (Is_Planet_Domed() always returns false even in facility ability amount formulas)
--NOT DONE: Domed planets need atmosphere generators or population slowly dies (can't figure out how to do this)
-DONE: Crew Quarters and Life Support now come in 5 and 15 kT sizes
-DONE: Added Universal Colonizer component (must have all 3 colonizer techs to build it)
-DONE: Integrate Dvoongar's Doctrines Mod

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