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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Favorite weapon?

Soumis par KingdomCome le Mer, 2007-06-20 00:43 Space Empires V General

Which and why?

There are so many varieties, it's hard to choose.

I am currently attempting to create the ultimate defense base(3400kT) and I seem to like the anti-proton or the organic weapons(plasma ball, lightning ray). There are other good choices, but the trade offs seem impractical, for instance the wave motion gun with massive base mount weighs 280kT, does 14k damage, and takes 6 seconds to reload. Whereas the plasma ball with massive base mount weighs 120kT, does 6-7k damage and takes 2 seconds to reload, in 6 seconds would it not be able to produce 18-21k damage? Also because of it's weight, you can place 2 plasma ball hurler instead of 1 wave motion gun, so overall it would be able to produce 36-42k damage.

Can I get some input please?

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par se5a le Mer, 2007-06-20 01:24

stock or balance mod?

it's damage/kt/second you want. then note the range and cost.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par KingdomCome le Mer, 2007-06-20 01:51

Currently playing stock, already downloaded the latest Balance mod and will have IRM soon.

Is there some kind of formula to figure out the damage/kt/second?

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Thy Reaper le Mer, 2007-06-20 01:57

I'm going to assume you're playing Stock, whose numbers I'm more familiar with...

The biggest advantage for the WMG is its massive range - longest of any direct fire weapon. That would be good in situations where a few defenders could hold the attackers at the maximum range of the planet, which is easier for the WMG than any other weapon.

For close range, you'd want the most damage potential (Dmg/kT/s) possible, naturally. If cost isn't an issue, go with the biggest number. If cost matters, look for the biggest cost drop with minimal drop in damage potential.

Anti-matter torpedoes are very cost efficient. I think they're actually one of the cheapest weapons in the game. To provide cheap, fast-to-build defenses for frontier worlds, I'd suggest max out A-M torps. Then you can put two or three out and have a defense grid so powerful only a mega fleet could stop it (or a very well designed fleet of tech'd out ships).

If you want to have a good reason to bother making omnipotent bases, play multiplayer...

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Thy Reaper le Mer, 2007-06-20 01:58

Damage/kT/second is the formula. '/' = divide...

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Prankowski le Mer, 2007-06-20 02:58

i thought about this in my current game last weekend and one thing was realy suprising me.
i was thinking about using plasma missiles, incinerator beam or meson blasters.
i first looked at the range and damage and thought....hey, incinerator beam for sure....more range, high damage, thats nice.

i then thought about the supply needed....and that was horrible!
to feed 10 incinerator beams (as huge mount) for about 150 shot i needed to place nearly the full lower deck with supply pods!!!
so i choose to use a few incinerator beams and lots of meson blasters wich have the advantage to also target fighters.

interesting thing would be....does a quantum reactor restore supply in combat??
i think not, but i´m not sure.
and it would be a pity if such a battlestation could only fire 20 or 30 rounds and is then out of ammo Smiling

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Fyron le Mer, 2007-06-20 03:41

The problem with choosing a favorite weapon in stock is that in the end, the very important balancing metric of Damage/kT/second tends to converge to similar values for every single weapon as tech levels increase, so weapon choice isn't very important after a few dozen levels.. Sure you have less important factors like cost ratios and range, but they aren't enough in the overall picture.


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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par an_unoriginal_u... le Mer, 2007-06-20 18:14

Try Damage/Kt/Second/Cost
Being able to build 3 bases with 2/3 the fire-power of a design with max fire-power is the same as 2 bases with max fire-power if the 3 bases take the same time to build.
Personally, I think weapon platforms are superior to bases when defending planets.


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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par KingdomCome le Mer, 2007-06-20 19:57

an_unoriginal_username wrote:
Try Damage/Kt/Second/Cost Being able to build 3 bases with 2/3 the fire-power of a design with max fire-power is the same as 2 bases with max fire-power if the 3 bases take the same time to build. Personally, I think weapon platforms are superior to bases when defending planets.
an unoriginal signature

Do you think weap. platforms are superior due to overall reduction of costs? It sure as hell can't take on a lot of weight.

At the moment, I have two defense bases and 3 weap. platforms defending my homeworld + planet gravitational shield. One defense base is based solely on inflicting as much direct fire damage as possible, currently using lightning ray(long range and reasonable damage with massive base mount), the other base is a fighter carrier base which can hold a maximum of 350 fighters, weapon platforms are using meson blasters.

Between meson blasters and lightning ray, lightning ray seems to take it as it has longer range and higher damage. HOWEVER, there was a time when I equipped my fighters with nothing but lightning ray(x6) and 50 of them could not take down my direct fire defense base, but when I switched to meson blasters, it could take the base down with not much sweat at all.

Also between one wave motion gun(high damage, long reload) and 2-3 lightning rays(moderately high damage 5-6k, fast reload(2secs), and multiple rays), it seems that dictate would state that the lightning ray is better. Unless WMG has some sort of special ability that makes it better than the ray.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Mifely le Mer, 2007-06-20 20:59

I think that, kT for kT, Meson Blasters are the most powerful and flexible (combined) weapons in the game. Sadly, they are also heinously expensive (at least with radioactives), as is the case with most of the "better" weapons.

If I had to pick *one* weapon to research though... it'd be Meson Blasters. They are fantastic fighter weapons, allow for one of the best point-defense weapons, and are killer short range direct-fire weapons -- mid to long range on bases and weapon platforms with decent mounts. Their ability to target fighters and reasonable (but not cheap) cost, makes them better than Ripper or Incinerator Beams in this regard, in my opinion.

If I had to pick a 2nd, it'd be "torpedos" (meaning AM/Quantum/Gamma), since they end up being pretty flexible in the long run, especially since you get 3 fundamentally different strategic mechanics with just one tech (decent power/kT and good range for cheap -- AM, good range and power/kT for some $$ -- Quantum, and awesome power/kT with okay range for lots of $$ -- Gamma)

If I was considering a weapon choice for just a base... I'd probably pick the longest range weapon I possessed, even if its tech was not so high. Bases can't run, and likewise, they cannot pursue enemies with long range weapons either. If I knew my opponent was using short ranged weapons exclusively, I would again go with Meson Blasters, or something with a lot of bang/kT -- its a base after all, and cost/maintenance is not really an issue with bases as much as it is with ships, so I'd go to town with the best power/kT, combined with decent range and flexible targetting... i.e. meson blasters. I never use the racial techs, so its likely that lightning rays, or shard cannons, etc. probably also fill this role well, if you have that tech.

AP beams kinda stink... mostly because the extra range they have over blasters is "no way in heck to hit" range, so it almost doesn't matter -- they are relatively cheap though, and fun to watch.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par KingdomCome le Jeu, 2007-06-21 15:05

I do have to agree that meson blasters are quite useful, lightweight, uses low supplies, and have decent power. However it is mainly a short range weapon, and that is the one part that I dislike when using them on my bases.

The great thing about bases is that using massive base mounts, the range of it's weapons have a distinct advantage over ships/fighters with short range weapons. I like the idea of weakening my opponent out long before they are in range to hit back, therefore minimizing the overall damage to my shields/armor/structure and overall minimization of base loss.

For fighters, meson blasters are definitely the most cost effective, I cannot deny that. If nuclear warheads didn't take 10 seconds to reload, I would also consider it an option.

For weapons platforms, I am using lightning rays for long range(160+) with decent power(2k) and augmenting with meson blasters and some PD weapons.

For bases, I have two, one launches fighters solely(300+ fighters) and the other is a direct fire base. My fighters have maximum engine amount allowed, 6 meson blasters, bit of att/def bonus items, 2-4 units armor and 2 shield generators. Even if I went all out with armor and shields, it's not like the fighter can last long anyways. So I went for maximum mobility and firepower and am currently using the fact that ships/bases can only really target so many fighters at once before reloading, it's essentially an "overwhelm the enemy strategy".

Can I improve elsewhere? Any recommendations?

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par an_unoriginal_u... le Jeu, 2007-06-21 17:07

KingdomCome wrote:
... Do you think weap. platforms are superior due to overall reduction of costs? It sure as hell can't take on a lot of weight. ...
Weapon platforms can't take on very much weight, but more weapon platforms can be built in the time that it takes to build a base. Also, assuming a base takes 3 turns to build (that's what they usually are for me), it allows the enemy a 2 turn window in which to attack, while weapon platforms would steadily increase each turn so you have small defenses immediately, rather than no defenses for 3 turns.
I prefer any organic weapon. If you create your design properly, you can cut mineral costs by about 1/3, meaning it will take you less time to build the base (or weapon platform).
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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Dvoongar le Sam, 2007-06-23 04:07

Weapon Platforms can never be on the "wrong side" of the planet, and they draw supplies from the planet. Using them presents the enemy with multiple targets (moreso than bases), so if one dies the others keep fighting.

I consider them the first line of planetary defense - other types are always supplemental. Planet capacity can restrict them severely, and in that case you have to add supplements.

The a big advantage of bases over WP's (which might not apply here) is the ability to upgrade. WP's have to be removed and replaced.

I'm not familiar with the high end of the tech tree, so that's all I can really contribute.

Edit: I forgot - sometimes maybe you can't upgrade bases. I vaguely remember having trouble with that, but lately I've done it successfully in BM at least. No... I remember now: it's mothballing. You can't mothball bases. I think it takes a movement point to get into mothball status.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Fyron le Sam, 2007-06-23 13:06

Requiring movement to mothball sounds like a bug; you should report it to Malfador (se5 at malfador dot com).


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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par antirelic le Sam, 2007-06-23 15:51

I like phased polaron beams, at least early in the game. Nothing like punching right into the hull of an unexpected enemy, or an enemy who has spent 6 techs into shields....

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par Spacebandito le Sam, 2007-06-23 18:13

antirelic wrote:
I like phased polaron beams, at least early in the game. Nothing like punching right into the hull of an unexpected enemy, or an enemy who has spent 6 techs into shields....

Or Shard Cannons for skipping armor...ouch.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par antirelic le Sam, 2007-06-23 18:23

I'm figuring out the hard way that phase weapons and temporal weapons arent that great of a match, at least at low tech levels. Maybe later on they will be. I dont know all the techs (in the balance mod its different, but more fun).

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par marx0012 le Dim, 2007-06-24 06:18

My favorites: Wave Motion Gun and the Lightning ray weapon...... I build a super huge Mother ship( 9500kt class)
And filled it with WMG's and LS's (massive shipmount)
Together with some torpedo's(quantum of course)50k+ of shielding and filled to the max with organic armor not to forget 60 fighters. In the simulator i haven't been able to kill that thing......
Itried with 30 dreadnaughts and all shield/armor and structural points were still intact.
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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par KingdomCome le Dim, 2007-07-01 23:06

Uummm how the hell did you make a ship with 9500kt? Custom made it huh?

Having such a powerful ship is kind of boring to be honest.

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Re: Favorite weapon?

Soumis par pkoko le Lun, 2007-07-02 01:03

I like crystaline torpedo; skips armor and good damage/weight ratio

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