Is the game playable at 1.33

Yup.

But do yourself a favour and pick up a mod. Stock still isn't that great. Balance Mod if you want the 'feel' of stock, only better, IRM if you want crazy aggressive AI, or the Gritty Galxies mod if you're in the mood for something completely different. The Golden Eclipse mod has also been recently updated to work with 1.33, so it's worth checking out too. Note that GG Mod & Golden Eclipse currently don't have functioning AI so at this point they're pretty much multiplayer only. Or you could play them single player just to tinker around with all the shiney newness. It's all good.

All the mods mentioned can be downloaded from here

Suction feet are not to be trifled with!

definatly but IK would recomend the download of a mod as sugested above

As far as bugs and other technical problems, 1.33 is close to perfect, just one or two lingering issues (the memory leak, for example) - but as good as you'd expect any final release game to be.

As far as game balance, the stock game is getting better but still isn't perfect, however there are several mods available that greatly improve the balance of components, research, etc - either Balance Mod or IRM work well, take BM if you want something closer to the stock game, IRM if you want to try something different.

AI is the game's only significant weak point right now; Stock AI is still terrible, and the AIs in the best mods (while a huge improvement over stock) still aren't as aggressive or challenging as they should be - but at least they do attack and can pose some small challenge. The AI definitely is improving, it's just not there quite yet.

Overall I'd say the game is enjoyable to play right now (with a mod!), but if you're a good player that micromanages well you'll really need to stack the odds against yourself to get a challenging game out of the AI.

This game truly shines in multiplayer. Is is perhaps the greatest game ever in that regard. I think you will never imagine it's potential until you do that.

Javaslinger

I like SE5 (stock) the way it is for single player. Sure it needs a few tweeks here and there on the AI but I didn't pick up this game to play Command and Conquer to be relentlessly attacked over and over. I prefer more of a builder style of take your time to build your universe coming across alien species now and then and seeing if you can get along with them. I think this game is great the way it is. ( Then again I had Pong and Asteroids as my first games and had to wait in line in the bar to play them. LOL )

Yah, I just played a stock game with the AI at hard and with a small bonus. Total waste of time. The AI isn't a challenge at all. Which mod boosts the AI the most? And is the boost only in letting the AI cheat, or do any of the mods actually make the AI "better" per se.

From what I've been told, the AI doesn't get to cheat in this game. It's playing the same game that you're playing, which makes programming the AI quite a challenge. They have to try to make it capable of managing all the variables in the game that a human player can debate in their head. The only "cheat" that the AI will get is the starting bonus that you give to the computer.

Nightguard,

I was asking about the mods. What are the best ones for AI?

I was speaking about the mods as well. They can't program the AI to cheat in the mods, from what I've been told. They AI has to interact with the game the same way as a human player would.

Either mod is an improvement in the AI, but the one for the Inter-Related Mod is trying to juggle situations that weren't really planned for by the game designer, so the AI in the Balance Mod is probably going to be a bit more refined. I can't say for sure, as I've been focusing my time on playing the IRM, and that one tends to be fairly agressive when it decides it wants to attack. Would anyone more familiar with the Balance Mod add their opinions here?

I always give the AI maximum starting bonus, that helps a bit, so far I'm playing BM but I haven't much experience with the game to have a solid opinion on the AI.
I remember playing MOO2 in max difficulty, without some luck and careful planning you're done for. MOO was cheating bigtime but it was fun, who said the universe is fair?

I've been trying to complile a "Almost" stock game mod since 1.08 when I started, most of the datafiles are the same as in stock with a few exceptions where I had to make changes to counter hard coded issues (all armor is the same "size" since a organic race would use organic armor at 30kt intead of 5k, if there were only 25kt left on a ship, it wouldn't fill it in with regular armor (going to mod that too later)

It's been slowely improving, It's still no where near SEIV was, but at medium and no bonus it's at abou the level of a "decent" player, but anyone who knows the in and outs of the game and "failsafe" ai tactics would still not find it too much of a challange..., if defensive (ship orders are my next todo, after I get construction queues optimized).

Once I get the construction queues rewritten I'm hoping that would make it even more efficent (I've found stock or even BM and IRM queue modifications to be "simple" (no offence), trying to mod something that makes actual decisions based on external circumstances), at least colony type selection seems to be good enough now... just minor adjustments.

While I'm posting... can anyone suggest a quick method to count the number of ships of a certain design in a sector (such as the number of defence bases, or defence ships guarding a planet)... I have a count of WP's, Sats and Mines.. but ships I'm drawing blank on a easy way (without writing from scratch)

Yes but...i'm waiting for my friends to buy it since they say that they won't get it until it will be playable.

We r going to run a 3 players game with some AI as well and what i would like to know is if the game is going to be ok now with this patch...we r not going to run any mod, just stock games.

So...should i tell them to pick up the game or should they wait another 2 or 3 patches?

I've got this game sinc erelease and it is gathering dust since i enjoy only multiplayer games and my friends r not buying it because of the bugs

**Daniele Pennese**

I would suggest that restricting yourself to stock games only is an unnecessary limitation. Mods are not just an afterthought in the mind of the developer...the game was specifically programmed to take advantage of them. The program asks you which one you want to use before you can even start a new game. IMHO, if you are waiting for the stock game to be up to snuff as far as AI, game balance, costs, and other parameters go, you could be waiting a long time.

Another thought that comes to mind is that if you only enjoy multiplayer games, why wait for your friends' requirement of a perfect game? You've got the game, it's perfectly playable with the Balance Mod, and there are plenty of games to join on Play By Web. Opponents are out there. If nothing else, it will enable you to evaluate the playability of the game first hand yourself.

You should take a look at all the work Bmaxa has done to construction queues in IRM. Our AI manage resources a lot better and the build queues can have more than one item in them. It also support a huge amount of AI's design, and it's possible to add even more as new ideas comes around. We also plan to make a priority/demand system for facilities so the AI can fill up it's colonies according to a need rather than a fixed build list.

Thanks for your reply

What mods do u suggest then which will only balance things out without adding too much extra content? I guess the Balance mod since the same suggests just that...balance

**Daniele Pennese**

Fallen,

Thanks I've taken a look, and it's along the lines of what I'm trying to create, I want to get a priority system built up that takes facility and ship needs into account, but also get rid of the modular allocation of resources... so that if you have little facilities to build it doesn't "Waste" the resources...

I just have grand plans of making it fully scriptable to take into account many external events and make building decisions based on that (are their enemies close, do we need more planetary defences, do we need more resources) first think I did in 1.08 was script a multiple depth queue system to reduce "waste"

In no way do I mean to put BM or IRM down, you guys do fine work, and I think overall we have a similar goal in mind on the construction queues, stock queues are too basic for my needs and while I understand yours are being improved each version I want to see what I might be able to come up with. I used to do alot of C++ coding in logic functions including a creating a scripting language of my own so it's a nice challange for me.

hehe

Well, I have to confess that all I've really spent any time playing is the Balance Mod, mainly because it seems to have the widest acceptance, and because the SEV King of the Hill league uses it. Here's a link that has some of the details:

http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

There are several others that are in use as well, I think. Hopefully some others will chime in with some of the details on those.

We are also considering getting rid of the modular allocation. But changing priorities according to events is a lot more tricky as we have to code a script to allow the AI to evaluate it's situation and act accordingly. Also another problem is the current AI has no goals, it just act and react using dice rolls, but don't follow any master plan. Coding that master plan is the most challenging part, especially if we don't want all the AI's to have the exact same one (ie each race should have one that fit their backstory). When that is in place, it's much easier to code resource management and politics, not so many arbitrary numbers...

Danipenn wrote:

What mods do u suggest then which will only balance things out without adding too much extra content? I guess the Balance mod since the same suggests just that...balance

**Daniele Pennese**

It sounds like you do want the Balance Mod, it is essentially the stock game, but balanced better with improved AI. The other popular mod is Fallen's Inter-related Mod, which makes some drastic changes to the tech tree and other game mechanics, with a more aggressive AI; playing it has a different 'feel' than stock or BM, I think it's much better than either, but it's very different. Use BM if you just want the stock game, but better.

I did the same thing with SE5 as the author of this post. I didn't dust it off until early last month and the release of 1.25 as well as BM 1.03. Since then I've been playing the hell out of it.

Not adding anything to the discussion, just my .02

I have been playing SE since the very first SE was developed and mailed to buyers on a floppy disk in a small pouch.
In my opinion SEV is not 'playable' without you doing extra work.
The only thing the map is good for is to select the systems. There are no borders, no colony memory, nothing that tells you where anything is after you have seen it. Example: your ship is surveying a system and flies within sensor range of a colony. you aren't micro managing the survey ship so you don't see the colony. the ship continues its survey and the colony exits sensor range. the colony is now gone. you have no idea it's there, your ship thinks it completely destroyed the colony and thus reports the planet empty. In the settings.txt file you can turn on and off different 'memory' settings. These partially fix this problem. However you must spend time clicking every planet you ships flew by, and then you must take the notes and then remember them yourself. There isn't a way for the game to help you.
I believe the game will get to a playable point soon. However, at this time I do not recommend this game to any new players. Too many game play issues that detract from the casual gamers experience. Buy and play SEIV and wait a few more months to play SEV.

The game is definately playable... In fact, I have been playing it for months and months and enjoying every minute of it. As added evidence so have thousands of other players.

Certainly the game will be improved. But if your question is 'is it playable?' Definately

Is it fun? Definately

Can it be improved and will it be improved? Definately

Damn nitpickers around here are driving me bonkers....

Javaslinger

Inclined to agree with you here, from where I stand its quite playable and has been for some time

Yes it could be better and I am sure it will be just as I am sure the remaining bugs will get squashed

Then we get the good stuff like the implementation of spacemonsters and commets
Amoung others...

I'd say, the game is very playable. If you like this type of game, you will have some real good time with the current version and by adding a mod or two.

Still, if your not a 4x space strategy fan, you will find lot of reasons to dislike it today, or in several months. This game is so deep that it will never be perfect. Still, the SE community effort to constantly improve the game is impressive.

How do you guys get past the "can't attack large worlds" issue in 1.33? Kind of a game stopper if you can't take out the enemy worlds isn't it?

Use beam or seeker weapons; they aren't affected by that bug.

Rather he'd work on the UI before that.

Quit complaining about the UI. It's not really THAT Bad. I'd rather be able to kill planets then be able to more easily select my ship. Which do you think is more important right now?

thanks man!

Take a chill pill. And reread the posts.

Evilginger wrote:
Yes it could be better and I am sure it will be just as I am sure the remaining bugs will get squashed.

Colonial Admiral wrote:

Then we get the good stuff like the implementation of spacemonsters and commets.

Santiago wrote: Rather he'd work on the UI before that.

Why don't you quit complaining about bugs that will get fixed and have a workaround.
Phoenix-D wrote:
Use beam or seeker weapons; they aren't affected by that bug.

The point was that if all the remaining bugs get squashed you would rather have spacemonsters. I would rather have the UI worked on after the bugs are gone.

To you the UI is not really THAT bad. To some of us it is. And it's not just about ship select. And while just about everybody has become used to it, doesn't mean we like it or there is not room for improvement. If things like bugs, UI, functions, spacemonsters are not repeatedly brought up, they will be forgotten.

My work round for the Bombing bug is to invade planets as developed real estate is better in this game than a parking lot.

ya...I don't invade against the AI tho...too easy. I don't allow myself to use units of any kind against the AI.

Imo its unplayable aginst AI, becose AI cannot destroy my worlds.

Santiago wrote:

The point was that if all the remaining bugs get squashed you would rather have spacemonsters. I would rather have the UI worked on after the bugs are gone.

But see thats the point!!! I want my space monsters!!!! GRRRR :D
(Cant figure out how to make the angry face) GRRR

i have B-mod and 1.33 and while space combat it fine and fun there are some kinks that need to be worked out first. in my game my ships refuse to attack/bombard planets no matter what i do. so unless you really love to make dropships then good luck. i'm trying to wait it out untill another patch but i pretty much stopped playing untill then.

The planet thingie is a bug. Just use csms at plaentary bombardment ships for now....

when is the next patch coming out?

Expecting the first change log since 1.33 to be posted shortly a patch will I suspect be several change logs further on. I expect the planetry bombardment problem to be fixed by 1.34 even if the patch comes out a few versions latter

Sorry, I understand that you like the game - I ve been playing for years, too- but I have to take issue with "as good as you'd expect any final release game to be." ? What? as programmed by whom? I m not saying its bad, just not a final release. And we re Beta testing it. SEV *does not* exit elegantly from a code bug. It crashes. I despair at the no. of access violations I get. I can only assume they re (A) to do with the memory leak or (B) a directX interaction prob, now thtat Malfador has decided to apply that chrome.
I DO think that the resource management interface (click on this.. and you can open/ sort anything relevant) is finally seamless, and yes, the best I ve seen in a PC game. (altho I do remember an Atari/EA "homeworld" TBS which was much the same:)
Even then aspects of the UI make me hanker for SEIV (eg. build queues: click to add, click to remove. Oh, no, click to add, click to remove, confirm removal, click to remove next, confirm removal, etc..)
S

SEV certainly had it's issues and bugs... but I'm astounded by these crash claims.. I've played SEV extensively since it's release. And NEVER had a crash. It has failed to process turns.. way back in the time of the teens.... 1.12? 1.18? who knows.. ancient history...

And occasionally it will fail a turn during simultaneous games.. (twice in a thousand turns perhaps?)... But it has NEVER crashed...

Javaslinger

I've had the combat simulator crash on me several times. I'm not sure how often exactly, but enough to make me save my game before starting it.

it is my experience that the crashes are software/hardware incompatabilitys, that and the AI are my main issues with the game, but thanks to mods im quite happy with it all.