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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Decommissioning facilties

Image de Archullus
Soumis par Archullus le Mer, 2007-03-28 06:24 Space Empires V General

I am a fan of the 4X genre and have played the likes of MOO and other turn based strategy games for over 20 years. My first exposure to this was in the mid 1980's when I converted the game play of a couple of board games (with some AI programming) to run on a Sinclair Spectrum (hands up anyone who remembers Sinclair Basic?)

In getting to grips with Space Empires V, I have started a limited resources game*. The object of this is to stretch the game play and make it challenging for the AI. The way this game works is that there is a desperate scramble to discover new colonizable planets before resources are exhausted. If you don't discover any new planets quickly enough, well you run out of resources and everything grinds to a halt. If you make a mistake and construct a facility that you don't need... well that is too bad. There are fewer than 1 usable planets per star system, so by the time you have discovered the 10th inhabitable planet the mineral resources from your first few planets have expired... I am winning this game as the AI appears to have some difficulty in adapting to a low resource scenario.

One of the things I have noticed is that when the resources on a planet become exhausted the relevant facilities can't be switched off; they continue to consume resources as if they were still fully functional**. This is particularly ironic with the mining facilities who consume 150 minerals per turn long after the mineral resources have become exhausted. I have not found a way to decommission these facilities short of abandoning the planet. If anybody could tell me how to decommission facilties it would be appreciated.

Alternatively I would like to propose that an option to Decommission Facilities be on a wish list of gameplay tweaks.

*LIMITED RESOURCES GAME SETTINGS
MAP
Quadrant type - Ancient
General options - Limited resources

EMPIRES
Starting resources - Low
Technology cost - High
Home planet value - Bad
No. of starting planets - 1
Home planet size - All same size
Empire placement - Evenly distributed
Technology points new players - 0
Racial points new players - Low (2,000)
Computer player difficulty - Medium
Computer player bonus - None

GAME
Sight setting - See only home planet
Player restrictions - Can only colonize breathable atmosphere

**PLANET REPORT relating to mineral resources
Game date - 2408.0
Planet name - Cuyrok IV
Planet value - 0 Kt mineral
Production (net) - -3265Kt mineral
analysis of facility cost
1 x Resupply depot - 600 Kt
1 x Space port - 600 Kt
1 x Space yard - 1000 Kt
1 x Organics farm - 150 Kt
1 x Radioactive extraction - 150 Kt
3 x Mineral miner - 465 Kt
2 x Research centre - 300 Kt

‹ New to Space Empires Universe Cultural Acheivements ›
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Image de Prankowski

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Prankowski le Mer, 2007-03-28 07:55

choose the planet you want to scrap facilities and then use the "scrap cargo" menue-point.
there you can also choose facilities to get removed.

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Mer, 2007-03-28 10:08

Many thanks for that one Prankowski.
Current progress on this game has reached a very intersting stage:

The Megrath Ortoxy are a rock-oxygen based life form. They own all 9 colonizable rock-oxygen planets in the 21 systems so far discovered. It is game turn 2412.4 and the Megrath Ortoxy have just researched Ice planet colonization. As a consequences a further 10 planets have now become available to colonize.

Mineral production has just reached crisis point; of the colonized planets 4 have been exhausted of mineral resources and a further 2 of will be exhausted within the next 4 game turns. Hobson's choice had been looming ie of accelerating mining in the remaining 3 colonies to prevent everything grinding to a halt.
The bolt of heavenly knowledge from a parallel SEV universe has alleviated matters greatly. Smiling

The Megrath Ortoxy can now progress with renewed confidence into the bleak and forbidding sector which it proposes to colonize and dominate.

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Image de Rilo57

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Rilo57 le Mer, 2007-03-28 13:14

This could be another factor in balanceing the AI... If you could set up a game that the AI gets unlimited resources and the human players would be set to have limited resource planets...

getting alliances would be of great help with limited resources, as well as storage

Oh and by the way, I had a sinclair as my first computer. I was about 11. and it had an expansion module so that it had 16K of ram! I wrote a few programs that maxed out it's ram and it locked up...

SEV, more than a feeling.

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Image de Telumehtar

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Telumehtar le Mer, 2007-03-28 14:09

I would try a limited resources game, but only if planets continue to produce a minimum, say one/fifth of their initial percentage after being exhausted, you'd still rely heavily on fresh planets to maintain large fleets, but to become completely barren is not appealing to me.

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Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par KOKOPUFS le Mer, 2007-03-28 15:09

I was disappointed when the AI with Crystallurgy tech failed to utilize its solar collector facilities in a limited resources game. I even started the game giving full tech to the AI. They ran out of resources almost immediately, failing to use solar collectors or planet value increasing facility.

Are there any mods that improve AI on limited resource games? I enjoy the boosted challenge to efficiency.

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Image de Telumehtar

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Telumehtar le Jeu, 2007-03-29 03:34

also, an excellent idea would be to make resources depend on population, very fewer, so you'll need starting resources from planets but later vital to upkeep, I seems to me that this could be accomplished with a mod.

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Jeu, 2007-03-29 06:56

A crisis point has been passed. It was touch and go for the Megrath Autoxy from 2412.0 to 2415.0. Some hard decisions had to be made to balance sceintific progress with growth. The game turn has now progressed to 2416.5. They now have colonized 19 planets from 24 systems. 5 of those planets are currently producing minerals. OTBE these planets will be exhausted of minerals at game turns 2417.5, 2419.3, 2419.6, 2419.8, 2424.4. Another 5 planets are in reserve and will commence mineral production as required; a further 3 planets could be colonized of which 2 have mineral deposits. All superfluous facilities have been paired back. The Megrath Autoxy run their empire on:
- 4 space ports
- 2 space yards
- 1 resupply depot
- 5 mineral miners
- 33 research centres (on 3 planets)
- 2 intelligence centres
- 1 organics farm
- 2 frigates
Most of the Researgh points (19,890 per turn) are put into Gas Giant Colonization, which will be discovered on game turn 2416.8. This will make a further 11 planets available to colonize.

There are 10 races in this sector. The Megrath Ortoxy have made contact with the following races:
- Achujov Consortium (with which they have a treaty)
- Cue Cappa Commonwealth
- Amon'krie Continuum
- Jraenur Imperium
The latter two races issue statements and threats but appear to lack the where-with-all
to follow this up.

The limiting factor is mineral resources. Based on the known mineral reserves it seems likely that the Megrath Autoxy will remain a spacefaring species until around game turn 2430.0. Given that 5 of 10 races are known it follows that around 50% of the available planetary resources have been discovered. There may be other affordable technologies which will permit utilisation of additional resources to be found in asteroid belts, and on non oxygen atmosphere planets. Perhaps the technology tree needs a little further study, or if some force from a parallel SEV universe Smiling were to unexpectedly describe a technology path and research points required the Megrath Autoxy would be greatly appreciative Eye-wink.

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Image de TakAhLah
Mod Designer

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par TakAhLah le Jeu, 2007-03-29 07:26

Quote:
if some force from a parallel SEV universe were to unexpectedly describe a technology path and research points required the Megrath Autoxy would be greatly appreciative .

Message from the Nilith Imperium

This is not going to be very specific as we the Nilithi Imperium cannot be sure your SEV universe is the same as ours and tho our computer systems hold much data on all types of parallel universes...such as the IRM, BM and Stock! We are on a mission of upmost importance and do not have access to those files at the present time

However, to point you in the right direction, the facility that your empire is lacking, is of the type that improves planet values which we believe can be researched under planet utilzation...at least in our universe.

As for research expense we cannot say as this is of the highest security.

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Jeu, 2007-03-29 14:10

...garbled transmission as follows...
... are biped humanoid Oxygen-Nitrogen breathers. They reproduce sexually and their life cycle processes revolve around the care and protection of their young within a family group setting. They live active lives over the equivalent of a human century, in which they may spend 20% raising their young. Similarities in their physiological build would make them appear highly attractive to humans. Their biology is not substantially different however the only result of any pairings would be epidermal irritation and swelling.
... culture relies upon the model of implied cultural norms made explicit through artistic expression. The means of expression is a "folly" and in accordance with the overt method of artistic creation, involves the catharsis of a "meme" by means of whatever artistic method is at hand. Their eternal quest for expression, artistic pleasure and knowledge has brought them to the stars.
... do not have records that show their origin. They believe that sometime after a major climate change they began to develop literacy. It was only then that they began to record their history. After millenia of suffering and progress they came to embrace their destiny amongst the stars
... may see fit to laud the unseen hand of the Nilith Imperium for ages to come (or at least the next 30 game turns!)

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Image de Psieye

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Psieye le Jeu, 2007-03-29 19:08

Easiest solution would be to go read the data files to see where the Remote Mineral Miners are. Short answer: research Mineral Extraction to Lv 10+ (assuming stock or IRM) - somewhere on that tech path you'll find remote mining. Planet Utilization (Planet Engineering) is what eventually (after teh Conditon improvement plants) gives Value Improvement plants - I wonder how those work in finite resources...

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par evilginger le Jeu, 2007-03-29 23:15

its posible that they might be useful to regenerate depleated planets or at least maintain the levels of resorces with the improvement countering the degredation. Not tried them but it would be worth a try.

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Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Mylon le Ven, 2007-03-30 00:38

In SEIV, value improvement plants worked in a rather odd way. They increased the current amount of resources by their percentage. So it was much more useful on mineral rich planets, so much so that if the planet was rich enough, you could actually produce infinite minerals from it. Not a whole lot, but it's better than nothing.

I personally think limited resouces ought to work a bit more like Stars!, where mines produce less and less resources as the planet is depleted. Then again, there was also the option of creating minerals for a rather hefty manufacturing cost. It was something to do when a planet had nothing else to do.

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Ven, 2007-03-30 07:46

Had a bit of a dig on the Technology Tree to follow up some of the responses. It looks to me that there are three areas of research to try. These are:
- Chemistry leading to Resource Converter ...requiring a further 480k research points
- Planetary Engineering leading to Value Improvement ......requiring a further 1,260k research points
- Minerals Extraction leading to Robo Miners Component ...requiring a further 2,210k research points
The research points are inflated because of the game setting where technologies end up needing double the stated amount of research points.
The Megrath Autoxy are producing 20k research points per turn; OTBE the options are to discover:
- Resource Converter by game turn 2422.6
- Value Improvement by game turn 2426.5
- Robo Miners Component by game turn 2431.2
ATM the above technologies can't all be researched at the same time. The resource Converter seems to be the least risk path, which could increase the available mineral resources by up to x 2 (hopefully).
Current mineral resources come to 6,265 Kt; are being consumed at circa 30 Kt per turn and so will be exhausted by around game turn 2440.0. Not all of the satr systems in the sector have been surveyed; I am hopeful of discovering a further 6,000 Kt that can be extracted at the current levels of technology. If any or all of the above advancements bear fruit the eternal quest for more resources to feed the ambitions of the Megrath Autoxy can be turned towards preparations for planetary assaults and invasions on all those poor AI's who have ground pretty much to a halt.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

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Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par mm1145 le Ven, 2007-03-30 08:27

so solar genrators in the cristline tech tree use up the minarils on planets or are there minrals free?

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Image de Psieye

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Psieye le Ven, 2007-03-30 10:59

Crystalline Solar Generators create resources completely for free out of sunlight.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Sam, 2007-03-31 15:17

Interesting comment about the Crystalline Solar Generators, however the Megrath Autoxy do not appear to possess the racial trait required. NM.

Came up across a rather perplexing point. Star systems connected by warp points cover about 60% of the minimap. There are no more unexplored warp connections visible on the minimap. The Megrath Autoxy appear to have discovered all stellar systems connected by warp points... or have they? When the game turn updates the AI counts up to 10 races. I am thinking five discovered plus one (for the race being played) = six so what are the other four?

Can there be a hermetically sealed set of star systems on the remaining 40% of the minimap just waiting for the right technology or other circumstances before they become accessible?

Thoughts anyone?

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Mod Designer

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Sam, 2007-03-31 15:31

How long do the AI turns take? If they are really brief its possible the other races have been destroy and/or lost all their planets (which cuts off diplomatic contact)

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Image de Archullus

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Archullus le Dim, 2007-04-01 03:41

The AI turns are all very brief, that is a fraction of a second. All of the AI races encountered have been on one or two planets. Very early on I had a couple of hostile frigate encounters but since then nothing. Their space faring ambitions appear to have ground to a halt as every one of their planets has zero minerals. It would be possible for them to become space faring again (however briefly) by scrapping most of their redundant facilities, thus reclaiming some scrap value. The alien races are still there - they issue threats but nothing else, so I presume they have nothing to carry them out with.

On the subject of winning the criteria are:
- Massive Expansion
- Highest Technology
- Sole Survivor
As the game setup was colonizing only on planets with breathable atmospheres, hydrogen and methane are out so Massive Expansion could be hard to meet.
My technology is far and away the highest - at tech level 74 (LOL) but I presume that won't kick in until game turn 2440.0 or maybe 2480 (don't know where to look for this)
On sole survivor I am practising "let well alone" as long as possible, leaving me as the master of known space for the indefinite future. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!
or at least until the Technology criteria kicks in Smiling

AI note

I presume that the AI construction philosophy is based on infinite resources. Their planets show that many mineral miners were constructed, which given the limited resources must surely lead to their early demise - a point for AI choices in limited resource games. I make the Megrath Ortoxy scrap redundant facilities as soon as possible Smiling.

PS I guess the other four alien races are extinct, and no I didn't do it, honest guv!
Ha! just checked victory conditions in game setup:
Technology = 80% of technology tree - impossible to achieve on limited resources
Sole Survivor = last man standing - there are still 5 other alien races in existence... for now!
Expansion = 50% of systems - there are 38 systems visible of which I have colonised 22. On the face of it I have met the condition for 50% however 5 of these systems contain other races that I haven't bothered to eliminate. Therefore either I need to go on a Xenocidal spree or there must be additional systems that I can't see. If the latter, there must be at least 7 unconnected systems to push my race under 50%.

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Image de Psieye

Re: Decommissioning facilties

Soumis par Psieye le Lun, 2007-04-02 06:09

Archullus wrote:
On the subject of winning the criteria are: - Massive Expansion - Highest Technology - Sole Survivor
Multiple victory conditions use "AND" not "OR". That is, you will need to hit all 3 of those criteria before seeing the victory screen. I have only seen this victory screen once and that was years ago in SE III - normally I end the game long before I prove my supremacy to the AI (you know, when you have 200 times their Research and Intel, and you own 70% of the quadrant with 6 giant fleets awaiting orders).

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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