SE:V Changelog v1.29

Does that mean they take up more space now as they gain levels?

No. Structure is how much damage that can taken, not how much space they take up.

1. Fixed - Combat against a planet owned by a player but with no units or population would end immediately.

Not seen that one but glad its fixed

2. Fixed - "Only Weapons" damage type now penetrates shields.
3. Fixed - "Only Engines" damage type now penetrates shields.

Good I can now do NVC properly an ship capture will be more viable

other than that most of the changes seem to be more of a minor modification of the stock game rather than any thing else.

Yeah, it's sort of disappointing to see minor modifications like this made , game tweaksvwhich can be corrected by modders, when there are still many more serious issues out there which cannot be corrected by modders....

Javaslinger

Looks like a comprehensive rebalance...can't wait to try it.

"1. Fixed - Combat against a planet owned by a player but with no units or population would end immediately.
Not seen that one but glad its fixed"

I ran into this one once...couldn't kill the planet!

So early March or so for the next patch it looks like?

I like the patch updates so far.. If he holds of to 1.30 or further, it looks to be fairly massive....

Javasligner

Hmm, not really that happy to see Aaron spending time doing what modders can easily fix, when there's still so many code issues left.

How about multiple targets targeting???

There seem to be about as many people who think stuff like this shouldn't be left for the modders to fix as there are people who think it should be left to the modders.

"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

These changes will have to be made sooner or later, since right now the stock game is considered almost broken by most players due to massive imbalances in the game. Certainly you can easily mod it, but leaving the stock game like this seems unacceptable as well (people expect to be able to play a game they buy, not make their own). While I definitely think that there are still a lot of code issues that needs to be addressed, I also think that Aaron needs a break from all the coding as well. If doing this is his way of taking some time off then it's rather welcomed.

I have to wonder though, why did Aaron make CSM even stronger? I guess I'll have to wait and see the balancing for myself... the only problem I foresee with these changes without accompanying AI changes to take advantage of the new balance is that the AI will fall even further behind. (Strengthening missiles is certain to devastate the AI.)

i think there is an alliance and intelligence bug still in the game.
once i make an aliance i loose all my previous treaties etc. going through the alliance chambers i can give gifts declare war or send boring messages. (votes accept the proposals) i cant however propose new treaties, nor can i accept new treaties that are proposed to me. I dont even get to vote. the computer just says this is not allowed with my alliance. When i set up the alliance, I never selected an exclusive "no treaties" option- in fact this does even get proposed when setting up an alliance.Also when the AI proposes treaties - it proposes them to my empire as opposed to my alliance. i cant accept those either.. Is this a bug or am i missing something, because as it stands i'm better off without an alliance...

The intelligence bug is that i have say 50,000 intelligence point. according to the empire comparison list , empire A had 10000.- (e.g. significantly less than my total amount) I start doing intelligence operations against empire A, and i get results. If however i swap to empire B, which also say has 10000 intelligence points. i get nothing. no reports etc. if i swap back to A then i get stuff again. it seems that your first intelligence target is the only one you can operate against. Also when you get empire information in the news window, that is all very interesting but, it would be alot better and more useful, if it updated the empire status in the empire info area. so instead of giving you expected technology with a probability level, it gives you a more accurate list of technology with a higher certainty probability. I dont think the empire status list gets updated at all.

plus while i'm here- sorry for the long post- the game is now taking 20-25 minutes to process a turn, which is very very close to becoming unplayable.... i dont want to insult anyone who made this game since clearly alot of effort has gone into it, but is the decision process between turns significantly different to SEIV? that ran ALOT faster..I dont understand why it takes so long. it also often crashes during the processing- at the blue bar, so i can waste up to an hour and not actually progress a single turn.

Thanks

I was hoping to see a rebalancing of the stock weapons, and I'm glad he took some time to do it. There are still bugs left, of course, but there only remains one show-stopping bug - the memory leak - that I'm aware of, it's rather simple to get around.

Remember, stock is the base of some mods that prefer its research structure to that of other mods, so the less work that must be done for a fresh mod to get balanced decently the better.

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Space for rent - please contact owner

It's a general rule that you cannot please everyone, everytime. Very well, balancing the stock needed to be done. This is good. For a micromanaging, tactical-minded player there are 2 critical bugs that severely limit playstyle (drone aiming, unit supplies when launching into existing group) but there's next week and month and year for that I suppose. It will happen eventually, and I'm not solely dependant on this project to get fussy when it's not on the latest changelog.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

I agree, tho I would like to see drone aiming fixed sooner rather than later...hey I'd even like to not have to use drones as battering rams all the time but that mayb asking for too much.

2. Fixed - "Only Weapons" damage type now penetrates shields.
3. Fixed - "Only Engines" damage type now penetrates shields.

That's what I like to see! XD Now my pirating tactics will be much easier to execute!

i dont want to come off as sounding sarcastic here and i hope this doesnt leave that impression, but what of those of us that dont want to use a mod? i didnt pay $30 for this game to wate for someone (if anyone) to have to mod it to fix it. i expect a working game as stock. and then if i feel the need to mod it then all well and fine but i shouldnt HAVE to mod the game for it to be done right.

this isnt freeware, or shareware , i paid for the game i expect my moneys worth for the stock game. period. any mods, should i choose to use one, should be my choice and for a change of game play experiance, not be required just to have a working game in the first place. and if it takes another patch beyond this one to fix every little thing than so be it. idealy the patching takes as long as it takes to have a good stock game, the idea that the company should ignore problems because mods can fix them is at best a half baked idea if the company expects to do serious business, and wants to get and keep new players. i know there is a large and vocal mod community around here, but just because someone has a large post count doesnt make them a good representation of the average customer. lots of people have bought this game, and id be willing to bet as many as 3/4 or more of them dont have a clue what the term mod even means. they will play the stock game and judge the game based on that, and any future versions of the game (if any to come) and if they dont get a good stock game then they wont bother buying the next version no matter what the moders have done.

to put this another way, i got a buddy that is pretty good at "pimping out" cars. i could buy almost any car and get it pimped out into something cool, but that doesnt mean im gunna go out and buy a 1988 Yugo because i know he could mod it into something better.

Your view is valid and this discussion's been had before. My personal view is that you pay for a programing language, not a game, but that's my view. There will of course be people who want a good stock game. There will also be many people who don't care about the stock game. Humans be varied~

This would all be so much easier if the publisher didn't mess things up so much.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

The problem is that Aaron is, in this update, spending time on things anyone can fix, while there still remains alot of problems that *only* Aaron can fix. I'm not against the point that stock should be good, it's just that I'd rather he'd wait with balancing issues until the core game is actually working well.

Especially since some of these core game changes that has to come could upset balance alot, which might in turn render all his 'balancing' work useless.

In short: fix the core game and engine, then the AI, then the stock data files. Then start adding more stuff.

Hopefully those changes also fix the wrong number for Quantum Torpedoes requirements.

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http://wiki.spaceempires.net - Visit the SpaceEmpires Wiki and help improving it.

Which is very much my view stock will need rebalancing in the light of feed back from players and as stock is Aarons Mod that’s fair enough he do it. However there are things with the engine which need to be fixed first the thing I would be gunning for is the memory leak since it is the worst thing about this game at the moment. Most of the other remaining bugs are in comparison minor.

people that dont care about a stock game? that doesnt even make sense to me. look i know that alot of you around here do mod work and are really dedicated too it, but this is the deal. and its not opinion its simple fact. the guy thats making this game isnt just making an engine with his "mod" hes making a game. i didnt buy 'some code' i bought a game, and outside of the dozen or so moders that post here, so did the other 20 or 30 or how ever many thousands of people that bought this game did too.

now there may be a long and happy history of this game working with a mod community, but if you want to be anything more than a second rate company, then your stock game better be good. working with the modding community is a bonus. thats it. i dont know many people that would buy a game that didnt work right because it could eventualy be moded. in fact i dont know anyone that would. and ive never yet seen any magazine or game review sight have a special section on their reviews too judge the modibility of a game.

i found out about this game from game spot, and no place in any of their reviews either official or in any of the forum topics was it mentioned that i would be just buying 'some code' and would have to wate for free mods to actualy have a game to play. and im happy to say that this isnt really the case. there is a good stock game here, and its clear that things are being fixed to make it even better. great, add TOO that a good mod community and you have a good business modle, but too over board and start putting out 'some code' and wating for mods to make it a game, and you become a joke that 20 people support because they know how too mod. the other 49980 people that bought your game ignore the next one because no one in their right mind buys just 'some code'

the last game i played before this one was never winter nights 2. they have a HUGE moding community, and one of the selling points too that game was that modding comminuty. but .......... the basic game was compleate all in itself and you could buy it, patch it, play it and never once DL a mod and still get more than your moneys worth.

my bottom line is this, its bad enough that almost every game company out there shoves out a beta stage game and has to patch it 2, 3, 4, or even more times just to get it someplace close to a finished product, but to make a game that gets shoved out, needs patching AND modding to make it a game and not just 'some code'. well thats flat out wrong. im by no means against modding a game, or against companys that make games that can be moded. i AM totaly 100% against companys that take my CASH to to let me play a beta game and expect me to be willing to wate 3 or 4 months more for someone else to do their work for free.

As I said, "if only the publisher didn't mess things up so much". This is an extreme case of a game publisher and a game producer really not being in synch and the latter getting pressured.

Mind you, I'm used to worse than this, which is why I have little problem with the situation of having to wait for patches and mods. The fact that I like tinkering around with data files also helps me. But I am not you and you are not me. Your view I can understand.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

The more important stuff would be:
Fixing AI combat during end of turn
Fixing AI component usage.
Fixing AI research
Fixing AI ship building
Fixing the AI treaty usage
Fixing the AI always getting and staying Angry.
Fixing the game engine so I can click on an IE window to read something while waiting for the AI turns. Right now it completely stops and minimizes the game but at least it doesn't crash doing this anymore.
Fixing all the ways the game is known to crash in.

Oh, did I mention fixing the AI empires?

Being able to run while minimised has already been done. It hasn't been released as a public patch yet, but we'll get it in around 10 days' time by my estimate.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

I play in windowed mode anyway, so if I do Alt+Tab the game processes in the background. This way i can wait the 5 to 10 minutes until the turn processing finished while chatting away or browsing the web.
The memory leak gets really annoying, though (current game has a 100mb per turn increase).

~~~~
http://wiki.spaceempires.net - Visit the SpaceEmpires Wiki and help improving it.

i understand Psieye, mind you im not bothered by having to wate for a patch. i dont actualy have anything i want to scream about. everything ive noticed as a problem has been listed as being either fixed or looked into, in fact even some things ive not noticed and most likley wouldnt ever notice are being fixed as well. im a pretty laid back kinda guy for the most part but i do expect that eventualy i will get a finished product for my money. and dont take me the wrong way on moding either. im not against it at all, and i can respect people with talent. its just that in this case and how i read several posts it just struck me as wrong that anything should be left to the general public to fix. notice i said fix not change. there is a very large line between the two. by all means go crazy making a mod, make it better than the stock game (ive seen more than a few game mods over the years that ended up being that way)change the entire game into something totaly different, outstanding, ill try anything twice. id sing your praises to the sky if i liked your work, but (allways a but isnt there ) i paid the cash to this company to make me a game. so i expect just that, for THEM to make me a game. its really no reflection on any mods at all, from my point of view a modder doesnt even enter into the equasion. anyhow enough said about it from my end i made my point i wont keep beating it to death. and since the patch is going ahead as the company sees fit anyhow i dont really matter what any of us thinks about it

Hey folks.

Does anyone know if Empire colours being added to the mini system map is being considered into the game for a future patch?

when is the patch comimng?

so torpedoes have a POINT now?
sigh....

but did i hear that right,
they made CSM better?

It is on consideration a bit of a strange set of changes for a rebalance but if that the way Aaron wants stock to work then fair enough. If you don’t like it its quite easy to mod that to the way you like it, or play a mod you like.

Off Topic Nice to see the forum ban was temporary Badger

perhaps the AI will be changed to use CSMs as their defalt weapon. that would be reason enough (kinda) to make it stronger. just guessing mind you. but it does seem an odd choice otherwise.

I'm taking his buffing of CSMs to express his (tested) confidence that the new point-defence code is that much better. It was a week or two ago that he improved that.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

Oooh, he's changed the PD code? That might actually fix the problem with PD and faster/slower time rates then?

People should not worry about Aaron spending time balancing the game. Besides this activity doesn't really take that much time (as far as changing the datafiles is concerned). I do believe that he did those changes based on feedback from the community. I completely understand his intentions in creating a well rounded game and I agree 100% with Wyatt. This is especially important now that the game can be bought in stores (I think it's the first time this is done? At least I never found SEIII or SEIV in a retail store).

Keep in mind that many code changes and bug fixes are never mentioned in changelogs, not because they are insignificant but simply because they are technical,abstract, simply implementing something in the game the way it should have been done, or too revealing to be politically correct (as far as software development is concerned mind you!).

Imagine Aaron being pressured by the publisher to release the game. He would have to "take shortcuts" in the code to meet the deadline, even to the point of not implementing entire game subsystems. That happens in this industry. I do believe that he is working hard on completing SEV. The priority of the bugfixes and the things that need to change are his to decide and we really can't and shouldn't comment and complain on his decisions simply because we have no actual authority over the project.

I just hope we will have a stable and bug free SEV to work and play with, soon and long before any xpansion.

And let's hope he can hire some help for the expension, this project is just too much for a single programmer, no matter how good he his.

It's insane, being the project leader and the only coder in such a huge piece of work... He definitely needs more ppl. It is no wonder why GalCiv 2 and other games are stable. People should check the credits of a game before posting away with the mindset that MM is EA...

"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

There's no campaign mode and there's already a huge tech tree. How would you even go about making an expansion? There wasn't, as far as I know, any official expansion for the the earlier games.

The good people in the mod community offer their own expansions at no cost except their considerable blood, sweat and tears. And you should know as I believe that IRM is the mod to beat at the moment.

[/i]

oops. uh , i meant develop the game.

get ahold of me if you would like some playtestin' o' your favorite mod, EvilKzin - once they get multiplayer fixed
...

That's true, but I think that SEV is much bigger than the previous games and it has the potential to reach a bigger croud than say SEIII back then. There are many people that would pay real $$$ for more features, tools, more stock empires, a campaign mode, etc. At least I would.

Hm... making campaigns for 4x games is very tricky... Either you make a string of short, screwed up scenarios (like the GalCiv II campaign) or a few fully developed scenarios that would take a looooong time to complete and eventually become boring. I think the best choice would be some complex and detailed scenarios, like in Civ or Warlords, with a nice initial setup of ships, alliances etc.

As for multiplayer, isnt´t it playable yet? Well, I hope that with the next 1.30 patch and the new versions of IRM and BM the game will finally become what it was meant to be... the best single AND multiplayer 4x space game, ever =)

Hmm, as far as campaigns go, I found Imperium Galactica II: Alliances to be well done. You were more or less free to do what you wanted, but there was a storyling flowing along as you played too. Some of the missions and such had time limits to complete or you'd lose a colony to a massive asteroid (a random event) or you would lose out on something like rescuing a scientist working on special technology at a pirate base, and other events both random and storyline. If it didn't have a time limit, you could expand your empire all you liked before getting back to the story, though parts of the story open up new planets to gain close to your territory, if not within it. Eventually, I also hope to figure out modelling/texturing so I can recreate the ships the game has. Several races with all different designs.

Perhaps a storyline with similar workings could be implemented for SEV. Each game is different as there are only a handful (in contrast) of key plot missions or requirements, while there are lots of story enhancing random points that get implemented over the course of the game. Mercenary ships happen by seeking employment, pirates establish a base and start raiding, a trader ship is smuggling goods and you have to catch him, etc., and so on.

I know there is much to the game without any overall story arc to go through, yet some players don't really get into games without a storyline to enjoy along the way. It adds extra flavor to the stew that's already thick and hearty, so it's not terribly pressing.

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always long to return." ~Leonardo DaVinci

Oh yes! Imperium Galactica 2... how could I forget it.

Perhaps because... ahm... hm... the game was quite forgettable he he. It wouldn´t be so if the endgame didn´t always involve destroying hordes of Kra´hen. I think I never finished a single player game... But I agree with wanderdaekar, picking up the best elements of IG II would really spice up things in SE V. I recently borrowed my game to a friend of mine, and after playing a bit he made some comments that (I hate to admit it) are true:

- The main goal of the game is hoarding RP, planets and resources.
- With that you make the best and most numerous ships. If you manage to do that you win the game.

Simply put, that makes SE V look like Starcraft... Of course, I explained to him that it wasn´t QUITE like that, but it´s hard not to agree with him a bit. Tactical combat isn´t very tactical at all, and I think we have yet to see something like Steel Panthers in a space game.

Special events and missions would be a very welcome addition to the game, but then, we bump into another problem. IG II had a LOT of eye candy. SE V does not, obviously because it´s made by a small company. And seeing text boxes in the end turn log isn´t the most immersive experience.

What do you think?

I think SE V has as much eye candy as IG II did, except for the scene movies. Other than that, SE V is actually a more imersive experience. IG 1 was actually better gameplay I allways felt..... since you didn't just have 1 massive fleet, and the game wasn't decided on when your fleets met for the first time.

Things i'd love. A Scenario generator. A real planetary map. Some more planetary defence buildings(goes to try modding them)

Certainly can't argue the parts of IG2 that were unavoidable, such as the Kra'Hen fleet you had to beat or die (or in some cases, move faster than and keep reclaiming your colonies whilst simultaneously killing off the Kra'Hen reinforcements that are easy pickings to even a fleet of just a couple ships. It really just became a matter of dogding the bullet long enough to keep them from building higher and you building your own fleet. And when torpedoes have huge range and you can exploit the AI to just keep chasing you as you pepper them with torps to grind them down as they blithely chase you to their doom...

As for SEV being immersive or not...this isn't the type of game for immersion by prefab. We get immersed in the details, plotting, and experimenting, rather than nice (for the time) animations or cutscenes. If you put yourself in the mental role of the ruler of your empire, just reading seemingly boring reports takes on a different flavor. As it stands, it doesn't appear that random events are even working yet. Some MoO2 type space monsters, IG2 events (and maybe that ship manipulator component...or was that in the psychic comps?), and we have a suddenly much more varied game going. Perhaps not much change overall, but it spices it up if you're...say just holding the border while building and the AI can't touch you. A space monster or gigantic asteroid approaching a colony that could shatter the planet could keep you busy.

Overall, things will really take off once the patches get the bugs fixed and the AI able to write it's own name without gifted techs to keep them worth a damn. And as more mods, tweaks, and most importantly, shipsets/races are released with time, this will become so awesome.

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always long to return." ~Leonardo DaVinci

I once knew a guy who wouldn't touch a game that didn't had a cinematic intro regardless of genre. Personally I'm not bothered by the lack of cinematics, but rest assured their absence is felt through the game.

"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

there are many special and interesting starting "chess board configurations" that you can never get by using the standard 1 planet low tech start.

It would be cool to setup scenarios with many fleets ready for battle/movement and no planets at all.

Indeed, the scenarios are meant only to add variety, not to to replace the standard game. In fact, I think a pre-made scenario with just a few races placed here and there, with an X number of ships and techs, is actually a poor replacement for it, because a lot of the fun in a 4x game is "the way you get there", the discoveries of planets and ruins, the developments you made along the way.

No... to make a good scenario for SE V, I think you need:

-Fluff, a initial history that will catch your attention;
-Special events and missions, like in IG II (that´s optional);
-And a cool victory condition (s)

Examples: An alien race is on the run from an agressive nemesis that has chased it, from galaxy to galaxy. Eventually they setup in a quiet place in this galaxy, and live here in peace, for many centuries. Eventually however, their nemesis finds them, and they must run away from the galaxy... again; or face certain anihhilation (obviously the arch-enemy would be extremely powerful and impossible to beat on the long run, putting consant pressure on the player). The catch is, they must reach a far away warp node, and to get there they must blast/purchase/sneak a way through other alien empires, until a total of several million collonists reach the node to win the game.

Another example (that borrows a lot from Freespace and the nomad race concept, I admit he he): In a typical SE V galaxy, several empires exist, each with their own agendas, wars etc. One day, however, unknown warp nodes suddenly begin appearing all over the galaxy, and out of them comes an obviously xenocidal race. Instead of conquering planets, however, they send massive factory-baseships (with a fleet of space miners to supply them). These initial ships however are just the first wave of a much larger fleet, that will eventually jump in to destroy everything. The dilemma is, do you risk you fleet by hunting the massive baseships? Or do you fortify your systems, knowing that the ships built by the first wave will add to the considerable power of the invading main fleets? The winner? The player that survives... and destroys the biggest total tonnage, in order to be acclaimed as the savior of the galaxy.

Just some ideas =) They would need a scenario editor like the one in Starcraft, however

The game should stay as it is. A "Vanilla" Game with modder's making all sort of change's to it.

SE IV had the ever "famous" space monsters, (Devnull's mod started it, I think.)The space monsters had negitive resource costs. So There was always a endless supply of them. Sure drones suck at small numbers, But face a thousand drone Monster swarm. And watch your planets die a quick death. Added with the massive research\intelligence bonus they recieved. And then its more a battle of luck, not skill.

Special "story" scenerio's can be plugged in with ruin tech's. Along with the a "vanilla" type story you could research. (Adding Video is another story, and extra programing will be needed to make it happen)

Though I prefer reading my stories, not watching them. And I can see this game as a turn off for the ever "bored" media junkie's. I disliked IG2 with a passion. (though it was nice to eradicate the "grays".) And I dislike linear games that lead you through the "story". Instead of allowing the story to be "optional". (Ie, I like to be myself, not some "God like avatar" actor. Who faces impossible odds, and always wins at the end. And if he loses, he\she restarts the karma wheel and starts agian. In real life, You can lose a "battle" yet win the War. In linear story games, You lose the Battle, and the worlds end. Excluding the branching story lines that a few linear games allow. Like GE II.)

Like I said before, scenarios would only complement the main game, when you wanted to play a different kind of challenge. I beleive it IS possible to make good, non-linear scenarios in SE V. All we need is a good editor and of course good scenario makers.

Any news about a release date?

It will be released when it's done and definitely not sooner than that.