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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Image de Thy Reaper
Soumis par Thy Reaper le Lun, 2007-02-19 12:42 Space Empires V General

My favorite addition in space Empires V (other than more modding power) is the real time tactical combat. It's quite good and functional as it stands now, but there are definitely places where it falls short of combat in other games. What things would you like to see improved about it? Added to it? I intending on sending my list of requests to MM, and I'll also back up any other suggestions you people make, too.

The things I want improved:

  • Weapons don't take into account the speed of the target. The target may be in range, but if the projectile or seeker will hit its maximum range before it hits the target (based on the target's velocity) it becomes a wasted shot.
  • Cannot change strategies or ship groups on the fly.
  • Cannot cloak during combat. There are just too many possibilities concerning cloak during combat to ignore this...

‹ The AI: Will it get better? So, as a relative noob, which mods should I use to get the best game out of the AI? And where can I get them? ›
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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par StellarRat le Lun, 2007-02-19 15:10

My biggest beef with tactical is that the computer tends to overallocate firepower in some cases. It will fire a bunch of weapons at target that is just about dead instead of spliting fire to targets that are still a threat. I think the targetting AI should try to cripple as many targets as possible then finish them off when the battle has swung decisively into it's favor. Having written a targetting module for a real time space game I know this is possible, but it does take quite a bit of programming and testing to fine tune. The basic premise is: Fire at the ship with the most offensive capability and least defensive capability first, estimate the damage you are going to do, then when the ratio changes work your way down the list of other targets. The AI seems to be weak at estimating how much damage it's going to do and switching when it can pretty estimate the current target will be destroyed or made ineffective. Also, if a missile is targetted on a ship that has just exploded it should re-target onto a live target.

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par ekolis le Lun, 2007-02-19 15:42

Re: cloaking in combat: that would be cool but there would need to be a way to activate/deactivate it, and balance it so there are no MOO2-style timewarp facilitator exploits Eye-wink (Sure, SE5 combat is not turn-based, but what if Aaron decided "screw Star Trek, I'm gonna let them fire while cloaked!", or what if you were able to decloak for an infinitesimal amount of time to fire, and then by the time the enemy shots were to hit you, you were cloaked again?) One thing I might recommend, though, is giving the cloaking device a defensive bonus, much like Stealth Armor has... of course if you make it too much more so than stealth armor, that would need to be balanced out so that ships with cloaking devices aren't impossible to hit - perhaps give it an attack penalty (it scrambles YOUR targeting sensors), or make the cloaking device really huge, or make it drain supplies every turn, not just when you are cloaked (yes, I believe this is possible - just give it a negative Supply Generation ability)...

Re: missile targeting: maybe missiles aren't that smart Eye-wink

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par StellarRat le Lun, 2007-02-19 15:57

"Re: missile targeting: maybe missiles aren't that smart" - LOL...they are that smart already...(as you know.)

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par evilginger le Lun, 2007-02-19 17:30

wouldent mind the option of crossing a jump point in combat it would be the sensible thing to do for a ship to do if it can when jumped at a warp point

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Thy Reaper le Lun, 2007-02-19 19:09

I doubt Aaron would let firing while cloaked. You could move things in and out of cloaked ships in Star Trek, but not so in SE, so I don't see him doing this. StarFury is the only thing that makes me wonder...

I'm thinking cloaking devices would have an on/off timer, so you would order cloak and it would take maybe 3 second to cloak or decloak. While cloaked you can't fire weapons and shields are offline, but repairing/recharging should still take place. You can be targetted while cloaking or decloaking, but you can't fire, shields are down, etc. during this time making you vulnerable.

I know I'd use it a lot by getting high level ripper beams and going in as close as possible so I get to hit something with them Smiling

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Thy Reaper le Lun, 2007-02-19 21:26

A few more things I've thought of:

  • Add waypoint capabilities so that curved paths can be made.
  • Add a follow at X range command.
  • Allow orders to be tacked onto an order list like the normal commands in the game (destroy ship A, destroy ship B, bombard planet A, etc).
  • Improve AI so that it utilizes the capabilities of its ships more intelligently (ship-fighting-ships fend off enemy while planet-killing-ships go attack the planet; clear planet defenses before moving in troop ships, etc).
  • When AI is improved, make leaders in a fleet use ships more intelligently (rather than being bound to a specific formation), and allow the fleet-leading task force to use task forces similarly.

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Astroshak le Lun, 2007-02-19 23:16

Would actually like cloaking to be effective at range, but less effective when close.

IE - enemy fleet's in the middle, and your ship is on the edge of the sector - they won't see you. You get close enough, how close depending on your level of cloak and their scanning level, and they can start to see you. I'd think 70 ls guaranteed to spot, and for every level after that which scanning exceeds cloak level, an additional 10 ls (or so). Maybe a higher guaranteed spot distance - but enough that you could fire missiles from cloak if your target's scanning level is lower than your cloak level.

If they see you, they can target and fire on you, regardless of your cloak. You can fire and do all that regular stuff while cloaked, too - including launching fighters if you so desire.

Thats what I'd like to see happen with cloaking. Invis to others (who you're not showing where they are via treaty) on the system screen, but in combat only invisible if far enough from the enemy to avoid detection. And yes, that'd mean that a level 1 cloak would avoid detection by a level max level Tachyon scanner if not in the same sector.

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Alpedar le Mar, 2007-02-20 15:19

There are two levels of detection: Someone is there somewhere (and maybe even which classs it is (of course if this class is known)) and we know exactly where he is, so we can shoot him.

So good sensors can detect ship from distance and even tell its class (et least size), but still not be able to attack it.

If it was there, there would be possible eg. hunting cloaked ship - you detect ship in hex. You send fleet of destroyers (ehm, frigates in this game (why is dest. bigger than frig?)) and/or carrier (+some killing force?) and sweep whole sector (realy broad line of ships/fighters) and once target is located, you attack it with killers.

But overall i LOVE your idea of cloaking.

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Thy Reaper le Mar, 2007-02-20 15:24

I've liked both of your suggestions for cloaking. I think I'll suggest to MM some sort of sensor overhaul...

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par Astroshak le Mer, 2007-02-21 20:40

Another thought would be (if its not too much of a resourse hog) to have combat include not only the sector it takes place in now, but the 6 sectors around it ... making this change could give plenty of additional room to play with cloaking ranges, and allow for cloaked vessels to appear on the main screen (if in an adjacent sector) - because it makes no sense to me that a ship would be invisible on the combat screen but visible at a greater distance on the system screen.

Heck, not so much an issue with combat in and of itself, but more inline with cloaking ... I'd love to see the minimap get rid of unknown warp point connections (if you don't know where it goes, you shouldn't even see that little line coming from the star on the minimap) and for warp points, when there's more than three in a system, to have at least one with a random level of cloak, up to and including complete undetectability, with the ability to flag a sector as a warp point that you can pass through, without having to use the component to make one there. IE - you see someone come out of it, or you find the other end and go through it yourself, you can now use it because you know its there. The same would apply to other warp points that aren't completely hidden, but only partially so - even if you cannot detect it but you see someone coming out of it, you know its there and can use it.

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Re: Tactical Combat: Your observations and requests

Soumis par kanaric le Mer, 2007-02-21 20:55

Make a weapon that targets just weapon platforms on planet.

Also allow changing firing rules on all ships weapons so you can allow, say, the weapon platform smart bomb only fire on planets and not torpedos event though both can target a planet.

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