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Accueil » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

SE5: Cultural Learnings of Space Empires for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Malfador

Soumis par Zzyzx le Dim, 2007-01-07 20:45 Space Empires V General

Here we are at 1.20 and for myself, the game is finally playable. Build .08 and .13 would allow me to invest a significant amount of time building up an empire, and then crush my spirits as soon as something interesting was to occur. So I shelved it until .20 and didn't even mess with .17.
The turn processes in the older versions were painful. They'd take about 20 - 35 minutes as the turns progressed.
Been playing Space Empires since SE2.

Something that concerned me was the amount of resources it takes to operate the game. I'm running a 3.2 Ghz P4, 1gb of ram, BFG 6800 GT video card, and a Western Digital Raptor hard drive. I run dual screens so I can leave the task manager up on one screen while playing SE5. It appears that SE5 cannot take advantage of hyperthreading and is limited to basically 50% of a processors grunt. The game also builds up to consuming about 500mb of ram while in play.
Even still, the game feels somewhat slugish and laggy at times. Current turn processes have been significantly enhanced since the previous versions. I'd estimate a game turn takes about 10 minutes now in a game at around 2406 and much fisticuffs. Several times it would give me saved game errors and I'd have to perform some voodoo to backtrack a turn or so to get things moving along.
I am also using the newly improved Balance Mod which has made the AI much better than before.
I set the computer AI to hard, and gave them max bonuses. This basically gave them about a tech level of 150 - 200 while I was at the bottom. They showed up with their Cruiser, and I had to jump them like a gang of angry midgets with about 15 frigates and basically exploit a weakness the game has concerning targeting. As I'm sure you are all aware, you could have 200 ships and be facing off against another 200 bad guys and the first enemy ship in range will have 200 of your ships fire on it alone. The fleet is incapable of spreading their weapon load out against the coming threat.
Another gripe is how it is very difficult to control the group to fire at the same time. When 5 frigates equiped with capital ship missiles are popping one off at a time as they come into range, the enemy ships point defense can easily swat them down. If the 5 ships were capable of working together, several of the missiles would hit.
The AI could use some serious improvement however. Like the ability to adapt their ship designs to counter the designs of the enemy.
I would think the AI would be able to look at the fact that I have 200 ships, they may want to devise a plan to deal with that. The 50 mines, 2 cruisers and a space station might not hold against the battle group.

I'd love to see a focus on racial traits where an empire is preceived to be good or evil. Rather then line up like the British and slug it out with ships in open combat, an evil empire would clock a star destroyer in a system and await the bulk of the enemy fleet to enter the system, then pop the grape.

Retrofitting fun
This is dreaded like going to the dentist. As everyone knows when you build a ship design and produce the vessels, you get, "Donkey Punch Class I 0001" as its name. When retrofitting this vessel, it keeps its origional name. So in reality you have a ship now named "Donkey Punch Class I" which is really a "Donkey Punch Class II" ship.
So you could do like I do, I rename each ship. I usually go to wikipedia site and look up the Startrek ship names and just start typing them in. You could go and renamed them all to update the class number, but by the time you do that several times you'll be begging someone to kick the stool.
Another problem arises when you rename your ships. You have to then open each one to find out what type it is. Since the class is now gone from its name. Under the ships name should also display the Class. This option should be listed in the display properties.
What would be nice is if we could have a text file of ship names that it would randomly assign the vessels. You could have your human type ship names, then you could have some alien ones also for the other races. The nerds from the virginity nebula at wikipedia in the star trek section have cataloged hundreds of ship names -- Organized by type of ship also. Wow.

Warp point guarding
Idealy when I get myself a few systems bottlenecked to one warp point which meets the rest of the quadrant, i shore it up and plan to fight any major battles there. Usually on the inside of the jump point so they cannot see what presents I have waiting them. All of my ships sit around the jump point indian style with their guns pointed at the hole. A slight problem is you cannot activate their weapons range button to see how far a ship can be set off to the distance. Also, everytime you get in a fight, the ships move around and never return to the way you arranged them.

Tactical Combat
I don't know if it was an error or not, but one of my ships got blown apart and it was burning in space rolling but still moving at a set rate of speed. This looked kind of cool. Usually they just sit in one spot and burn. The ships seem to stack up on top of each other also and start rising off the map. Some of them went so high, I couldn't see the ship anymore. What's up with that?

Ministers
I set a cargo ship to be a population transport and turned on the minister, and it seems the minister is a high G rated Government employee and likes to do absolutely nothing just like in real life. This is too realistic. I would like the population minister to do some tedious population distribution for me.

Resources
Each planet according to its size should inherriently be able to store some resources. I hate building resource storage buildings. This would make logical sense.

Not complaining about the game. Just discussion on where things could be improved upon to enhance game play and reduce micromanagement.

‹ Found SEV in Canadain London Drugs AI and also treaties ›
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Image de TakAhLah
Mod Designer

Fleet name change.

Soumis par TakAhLah le Lun, 2007-01-08 11:09

Oh how I do agree with retrofitting ships and changing the names...this SO needs fixing along with the other things.

One thing I do so that the whole thing is not so painstaking is to just keep the same build ships in one fleet, and change the fleet name.

eg I have 5 Drathi APBAS-F I
2 Xenti AMTAS-F I
In a fleet called SDF I
Then, if I upgrade the designs to II and refit the ships, I simply change the fleet name to SDF II.

Its not perfect but it can save you some time until this whole thing gets sorted.

Those who are prepared to give up a little freedom, to gain a little security, deserve neither and will get none

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Jak sie masz!

Soumis par MisterBenn le Lun, 2007-01-08 12:41

Hi zzyzx,

I think I agree with all your points. Regarding the retrofit naming, I used to manually rename my ships after retrofitting, by that is only practical for so long. I agree that an "Auto rename according to new Ship Class" function would be best: in the meantime I use the "Ships" summary screen, and use custom headings including Fleet Name and Ship Class, and don't bother with Ship Name. It's then easy to see with the fleet Death Squadron which ships are Killer II's, and which are still Killer I's.

Regarding warp point defence, there should be a way to auto-arrange craft around a warp point using Fleets and their task force orders. Maybe Task Force strategies called Warp Point Defence 1-10 which automatically spread your task force members in a circle around the warp point, at a distance defined by the 1-10 number. This ideally could be used for satellite groups too (this is currently the most maddening to attempt manually). All it would require is a single setting added to the game which would allow the Warp Point to be considered the task force leader if present! Then we could design these formations accordingly as we wish. This would avoid any need to use the sector positioning display!

And regarding strategic combat targetting, I agree completely. The limitless simultaneous targetting makes small masses of craft more effective than fewer big craft in most situations, and fighters and drones even more so! I'd consider giving larger craft some damage reduction (so that loads of light attacks only do a fraction of their normal damage whereas high damage shots still have a lot of their damage intact), or maybe "armour mounts" so that the large ships can get more structure out of armour pieces as a bonus versus smaller craft, representing thicker plating. Those are big changes though!

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Renaming - Not a big issue with SE:IV

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Lun, 2007-01-08 13:10

It's funny how re-naming was never a real issue with SE:IV even though it was exactly the same. Sticking out tongue

-----

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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That's a fair point Kwok I

Soumis par MisterBenn le Lun, 2007-01-08 13:48

That's a fair point Kwok Smiling

I think that renaming after retrofits isn't a biggie since I workaround as I put above. I guess we all feel entitled to throw in suggestions about anything that could possibly be better since we know it might get considered!

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Warp pint guarding

Soumis par Exile1A le Lun, 2007-01-08 14:14

I use Satelites for that job work beter even looks brutal when you have twenty around the point and anything that comes trough get's blown to shreds.. Laughing out loud

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Image de pikcachu20

Are your video drivers up-to-date

Soumis par pikcachu20 le Lun, 2007-01-08 15:37

My systems specs are similar to yours,I'm using an ATI card though, and have not had that kind of memory usage. Ok I've only played two full games but at most I used up to 386.

Warp pint guarding
Submitted by Exile1A on Mon, 2007-01-08 14:14.
I use Satelites for that job work beter even looks brutal when you have twenty around the point and anything that comes trough get's blown to shreds..

I like this idea.....

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Skimming posts can lead to misunderstandings...

Soumis par Adeilt le Lun, 2007-01-08 20:10

pikcachu20 wrote:
My systems specs are similar to yours,I'm using an ATI card though, and have not had that kind of memory usage. Ok I've only played two full games but at most I used up to 386.

don't say it don't be a smart aleck don't do it don't do it

Wow! You might try upgrading from your 386 to a 486. Maybe even a Pentium. I can only imagine how long your end-turn processing must take...

sorry. i tried to stop myself, but i wouldn't listen to reason.

-=-
Mmmm... bacon-wrapped turkey bacon...

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Image de pikcachu20

LOL - 386 was

Soumis par pikcachu20 le Lun, 2007-01-08 23:16

the memeory usage....

3.2 Ghz P4, 1gb of ram, BFG 6800 GT video card, and a Western Digital Raptor hard drive.

My specs are similar....

Note: I still have a 386 in the garage that runs a dos program I need....=)

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I love my 486

Soumis par evilginger le Mar, 2007-01-09 00:00

I love my 80486 still use it to write data bases on and play dos based games Civilization and Xcom apocalypse any one, and its not that slow given its running OS2/2.0 and has 32meg of ram it can out pace my Athlons from time to time.

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Oh I complained about the

Soumis par Zzyzx le Mar, 2007-01-09 09:35

Oh I complained about the naming process in SE4 also -- Ask my wife. Eye-wink
One great thing in comparison is SE5 allows ships to have the same name unlike in SE4. No more guessing, "Hmmm, damn... Guess I already named some other ship Garbage Scowl."
So usually when I build Orbial ship yards and Orbital defense posts, I just name them as such, and eliminate the designation numbers and name all together.

Yes, my Nvidia drivers are up to date. The system does pretty good even when I simulate about 200 ships going Republican.
Requesting that the game offer multi-monitor support would be great. But I don't see it a happening anytime soon.

Another minor thing is I built one of those fleet training centers -- The Psychic one. Well, within like 20 turns practically all the ships in the system had experience levels of, "Jesus Christ Superstar." 523,969 points a each. This was within the balance mod 1.01.
I haven't updated to the new one since I'm in the middle of my game.

I agree that having some fleet formations that are meant to be based around warp points would be the good stuff. I've been still playing with the formation controls. There is room for much improvement. It seems if you try to turn around with the fleet during a battle, significant problems arise.

Hell, half the battles I've gotten into with a fleet, the enemy was placed so close to me that we didn't even have time to get into formation.
It seems as most of the formations were designed to be pretty and cool looking rather then effective at using their particular weapons. There is almost no benefit to trying to flank the enemy with another task force. Most ships seem geared to going max speed anyways in combat including the AI's. So it is difficult to get frigates/destroyers to the flanks in time before the heavy hitters show up.
I am no coder, so it's pretty much impossible for me to do heavy modifications to the game. However, my ideal tactical combat would be:
Smaller ships (Frigates/Destroyers): Harder to hit, and fast.
Medium ships (Light Cruiser/Cruiser): Decent speed and turn rate.
Biggin ships (Battleships/Dreadnoughts/Baseships): Slow moving, slow turning. But they bring the freight train of pain with everyones favorite class of vessel, "The Cripple Smacker."

Would love to see directional weapons. Expecially on large mounts. Larger the mount, smaller the arc.

Smaller ships should get additional bonuses the closer they get to the enemy ships. They currently have a bonus for being smaller, but it doesn't persuade the user to move in closer.

Those of you whom are familiar with the old Dos game "Begin 2" might see the concepts. If anyone is interested in it, it is free and there are several yahoo usergroups.
Please never put a Z axis on the game. I played Star Trek Final Unity, and you had to select the system you wanted to go to in all 3 axis'. Realistic? Yes. PITA? Bigtime
SE6, anyone?

With the simulator, it would be great if you could select a sector on the map. Example, a warp point you have your fleet stationed at. And in the simulator, you can simulate different forces coming thru that warp point to see how well they do. I guess you could technically try to count how many of each ship you have are present, then try to match how you laid them out at the warp point. Then imagine that the enemy comes thru the warp point.
I'll admit it, I'm too lazy for all that work.

I spent some time chasing an enemy ship that was stuck in my space. My ships were just barely faster than it, but the combat would end before I got him. I ended up having to exploit another weakness in the game to get him. I had one ship keep chasing the ship from one side of the screen towards a fleet of ships I had on the enemies oposite side. Then the game would place the enemy and my ships all right next to each other in that sector. Then we took turns beating on him.
I didn't care much for that. I wouldn't mind it so much if I was chasing them, and ever time I moved into his sector, we were that much closer together so I could eventually catch up and kick a hole in him.
Or, if I could mine that other side, and the mines actually get him when he moved into that sector due to the combat retreat.

Also, when I steer my ship back and forth like a madman in tactical combat, does it actually help avoid the beam weapons? It seems to.

Another neat thing would be a list of planet names applied to all the systems. Rather then just basing them off of the system name + numbers. Nebula's too. Also, what happened to the moons around planets? I don't think I've seen one in SE5.

So, how good do asteroids and nebula mask ships? It says the sector is opaque to most scanners. Define most? Whenever I hotwire an enemies ship with intel, I run the ship into the nebula to become a snitch in their system.

I thought all was good and raining puppies in my star system. Since I clicked on my sun and it didn't say anything was wrong with it. However, I right clicked on the sun, and went to star report and that's when things began going south for the home system. "The star is prone to violent [girlfriend esque] eruptions and has an unstable [logic] core." If she had told me up front that she was so unstable, I might not have moved in with her.

As you advance in levels in ship construction, do they get better at turning? Or is it a static rate based on their mass?

Thank you, come again.

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SE4 had Better Renaming

Soumis par Omnius le Mar, 2007-01-09 09:57

Captain Kwok wrote:
It's funny how re-naming was never a real issue with SE:IV even though it was exactly the same.

Captain Kwok,
In SE4 the program put the name of the ship plus 1 into the input field for the ship name while SE5 does not give us this nice player aid. We have to retype the whole name and when copying that means remembering what name we wanted. I sure hope that Aaron makes SE5 like SE4 in this regard.
Omnius

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Ascendancy

Soumis par Exile1A le Mar, 2007-01-09 12:11

evilginger wrote:
I love my 80486 still use it to write data bases on and play dos based games Civilization and Xcom apocalypse any one, and its not that slow given its running OS2/2.0 and has 32meg of ram it can out pace my Athlons from time to time.

I agree I still have a 486 next to my game machine to play some of the older games. you just can't beat some of the DOS classics. If you like SE you should try to find Ascendancy. I can honestly say that SE is based on this Old game. That's why I bought SEV. So try to find it and play it it's a classic!!! Laughing out loud

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Renaming

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Mar, 2007-01-09 12:42

Omnius wrote:
In SE4 the program put the name of the ship plus 1 into the input field for the ship name while SE5 does not give us this nice player aid. We have to retype the whole name and when copying that means remembering what name we wanted. I sure hope that Aaron makes SE5 like SE4 in this regard.

I'm not sure what you are saying. SE:IV named the ship with the usual 000X notation as does SE:V... I don't recall it advancing the number automatically when re-naming. One thing it did though was with upgraded designs was continue numbering from 000X of the obsolete design it was created from.

-----

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Another thing with the

Soumis par Zzyzx le Mar, 2007-01-09 21:13

Another thing with the naming is you cannot use the mouse to highlight object name. So to erase it, you have to get heavy handed on the backspace button.
I'm pretty sure SE4 highlighted the name so you could quickly dump that name.

Ship naming is an interesting science when playing multiplayer. Your oponent sees a lone ship named, "The Cripple Thumper" chugging along. They assume it is some heavy hitting warship who plays the part of Kirk style of breaking off the aliens antenna in a fist fight rather then the Picard style methodology of shoot, evaluate how much damage you did. Try to talk it over. Get your shields beaten down below 30% for dramatic effect. Then fight a little more. Then find some over complicated way of winning.
Anyways, the idea is they pull their task force off a planet to go teach it a lesson. Unfortunately for them it is actually a mine layer and has deployed its mine field around itself.
In the News, there is a picture of Nelson from the Simpsons laughing and pointing, "Ha-Ha."

Basically, it adds depth of play to the game. It offers the user a richer roll playing enviroment to see a battle group of specific ships engage the enemy.

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I think the ship name should

Soumis par MisterBenn le Mer, 2007-01-10 06:31

I think the ship name should be withheld from other players until the point in time that they can observe the components onboard, and until then only the ship class should be available. If you can't see the components onboard, how can you tell that that Freighter over the other side of the system is a Cargo Carrier / Troop transport / Repair Ship / Remote Miner etc? Handing over the ship name to other players tips your hand too early, and lessens the need to research scanners or to bother performing recon properly in the game.

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Image de Noble713
Mod Designer

Naming

Soumis par Noble713 le Ven, 2007-01-12 14:55

Captain Kwok wrote:
It's funny how re-naming was never a real issue with SE:IV even though it was exactly the same. :P

x2. The only ships that need individual names are highly-experienced ones for role-playing reasons. Other than that, I simply have too many vessels floating around to care what each is named. The point about displaying the ship's class in addition to the name is valid though.

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