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Accueil » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

Stacking effects.

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Dim, 2006-12-17 16:04 SE:V MODs

Ok, here i want to share my knowledge about effect stacking (what i figured out so far). For many effects, they don't stack by default, having more of a device don't bring anything to the design. But, if another device has that effect, it will stack. This can be an issue when you can mount multiple device that give significant boost, like the combat defense bonus you get by stacking ecm, stealth armor, scattering armor, cloaking device and whatever the ship base defense may be. So one has to keep that in mind when modding...

Also, it's possible to make non-stackable effects stack. Just create a formula that count how many devices of that type you have, or how many other devices has that effect. It can be tricky though, especially if you want to avoid absurd stacks from occuring... It can also be a good idea to include a condition in the formula so if a superior component is on the design, the current effect is invalidated. This is probably the way i will fix how the defense stack in my mod so no ship get a 200 + defense bonus...

‹ Nice bugs only a modder could find... Modding Weapon Mount Delay? ›
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Image de cordas

One simple thing you could

Soumis par cordas le Dim, 2006-12-17 19:29

One simple thing you could do is put a conditional statement in, if defence is greater than 150 then defence is 150. (or whatever number you desire)

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Image de Captain Kwok
Mod Designer

Combat Bonus Stacking

Soumis par Captain Kwok le Dim, 2006-12-17 22:58

Stacking for combat bonuses is controlled by the amount2 value on the ability. The best % value for amount1 will be added for each unique amount2.

-----

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Image de Rilbur

But...

Soumis par Rilbur le Dim, 2006-12-17 23:11

But what if we want NON unique amount 2's to stack? Huh, what about that? Laughing out loud
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Image de cordas

That works Rilbur.... It

Soumis par cordas le Lun, 2006-12-18 02:15

That works Rilbur.... It works as sheilds and as armour.

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Yeah...

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Lun, 2006-12-18 07:23

Captain Kwok wrote:
Stacking for combat bonuses is controlled by the amount2 value on the ability. The best % value for amount1 will be added for each unique amount2.

I kind of figured that out yesterday after a while of fiddling around. Work well for attack and defense bonus (i'm evil, i have put many penalities for several components like shipyards and shuch Smiling ). Unfortunatly it doesn't work for shields recharge rate (can't make the stupid shield regenerator to work, but i can make the shields regen themselves), i tryied everything...

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Image de cordas

quotes galore

Soumis par cordas le Lun, 2006-12-18 11:27

Fallen Haven wrote:
Unfortunatly it doesn't work for shields recharge rate (can't make the stupid shield regenerator to work, but i can make the shields regen themselves), i tryied everything...

If you can make sheilds that recharge themselves then you don't need a shield regenerator... Does this effect stack thou, as in you have 5 shield generators, each with a shield regen of 10, do you get 10 or 50 points of recharge?

If these stack then just ditch the shield regen module, bunk up the size of the recharging shield (if you want) and have it is a new module that "replaces" normal and phased shields.

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Nah...

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Lun, 2006-12-18 17:43

cordas wrote:
If you can make sheilds that recharge themselves then you don't need a shield regenerator... Does this effect stack thou, as in you have 5 shield generators, each with a shield regen of 10, do you get 10 or 50 points of recharge?

If these stack then just ditch the shield regen module, bunk up the size of the recharging shield (if you want) and have it is a new module that "replaces" normal and phased shields.

No, they don't stack, at least, never found a way to make them do so.

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Image de Rilbur

What?

Soumis par Rilbur le Mar, 2006-12-19 00:10

cordas wrote:
That works Rilbur.... It works as sheilds and as armour.

Say that again, you aren't making sense.

I want a components that does combat modifiers and stacks with itself.
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Image de cordas

to tired to deal with subject fields

Soumis par cordas le Mar, 2006-12-19 03:11

Rilbur wrote:
cordas wrote:
That works Rilbur.... It works as sheilds and as armour.

Say that again, you aren't making sense.

I want a components that does combat modifiers and stacks with itself.

My comment was that currently both shields and armour stack with themselves. As in more chunks of armour mean more armour points before your ship goes bang (well it doesn't bang in space but).

OK these aren't combat modifyers in the sense of giving bonuses, but they are objects that stack with themselves, I don't know how the game code handles this (or anything else really) but if you have a look at how this works it might help to understand how to stack shield regns or ECMS or whatever you want. (Or it might not, as I said I know nothing about coding, apart from being one of those awkward question askers, who sometimes strike lucky)

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It's hardcoded...

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Mar, 2006-12-19 03:16

cordas wrote:

My comment was that currently both shields and armour stack with themselves. As in more chunks of armour mean more armour points before your ship goes bang (well it doesn't bang in space but).

OK these aren't combat modifyers in the sense of giving bonuses, but they are objects that stack with themselves, I don't know how the game code handles this (or anything else really) but if you have a look at how this works it might help to understand how to stack shield regns or ECMS or whatever you want. (Or it might not, as I said I know nothing about coding, apart from being one of those awkward question askers, who sometimes strike lucky)

What works and what doesn't is mostly guesswork. Like how i managed to stack damage negation. Work well but the same trick don't do squat with attack and defense bonus, or shields recharge rates (though i managed it once, but it must have been a fluke, never could do it again).

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Mod Designer

Stacking

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Jeu, 2006-12-21 15:07

You can't make regenerators stack because they don't have the same settings attack and defense bonuses do (no amount 2). Attack and defense bonuses DO stack- just look at the Stealth Armor and ECM in stock for an example. Combat Movement and Damage Reduction don't stack; they just take the best value.

I'm curious as to how you got damage negation to stack..

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Image de Rilbur

Stacking FTW

Soumis par Rilbur le Jeu, 2006-12-21 15:15

Phoenix-D wrote:
You can't make regenerators stack because they don't have the same settings attack and defense bonuses do (no amount 2). Attack and defense bonuses DO stack- just look at the Stealth Armor and ECM in stock for an example. Combat Movement and Damage Reduction don't stack; they just take the best value.

I'm curious as to how you got damage negation to stack..

I think he made damage reduction stack by taking a "get compenent count" or something similar on the hull abilities list.

Oh, and Attack/Defense bonuses only stack in some situations. Stealth Armor + ECM have differen't amount 2's, so they can stack...

But I can't have weapons that provide -1% defense bonus (e. g. they "radiate" a lot of energy making the ship easy to target).
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Mod Designer

Doesn't work.

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Jeu, 2006-12-21 15:18

I checked Fallen's mod and the method he used doesn't work. Get_design_ability_component_count isn't functional in components.txt, and IIRC using it in the vehiclesize.txt ability list doesn't work either.

You can have your negative defense bonus weapons, its just you'll only get the penalty once ship (eg three guns is -1%, not -3%)

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Image de Rilbur

Thanks

Soumis par Rilbur le Jeu, 2006-12-21 15:22

Phoenix-D wrote:
You can have your negative defense bonus weapons, its just you'll only get the penalty once ship (eg three guns is -1%, not -3%)

... Which is exactly my point, I can't get them to stack up to -20% if you hvae 20 guns on board...
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Image de cordas

Can't you change how the

Soumis par cordas le Jeu, 2006-12-21 19:07

Can't you change how the game recognises and counts it bonuses, make it so that when it calls for the bonus info it goes to a different function that looks at the ship, works out how many shield rens it has, and at what level (effect) totals those up then subits the answer back as if it where just 1 shield regen.

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Mod Designer

Short answer

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Jeu, 2006-12-21 20:20

Short answer: no.

Long answer: we tried that already, didn't work. MM could change it, modders can't.

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It does work.

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Jeu, 2006-12-21 23:07

It does work. My last version i posted is bugged, something to do with -1 instead of - 1 in several formulas. My damage negation stack, just put several armor plating and you notice that the ship takes less and less damage. Of course, it start to take more as armor plating get destroyed (eventualy, damage get through). It won't display it, but you'll notice it works.

Edit : I could update it but i'm almost done with the next version, so i hold back to make sure no silly bugs are left.

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Mod Designer

Doesn't.

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Jeu, 2006-12-21 23:12

Three plates, 42 + 42 + 42 damage, or 126 total. A hit of less than 126 will still hurt the ship..

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My mod is a bit more subtle than that...

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Jeu, 2006-12-21 23:50

Yeah, but by how much? The way i designed my mod, i wanted the armor to still take some damage. Stack more armor and you'll see the damage reduce down to the point it won't hurt the ship anymore. I should also point that i made normal damage do penetration damage. In my last version, it was 60% penetration, 25% of damage to the armor. The damage negation will stop the penetration damage first, then if it can, block some of the normal damage to armor. I changed it a bit in my next version i'm working on but the system is the same, damage negation will try to stop piercing damage, then the damage to the armor. With a powerful enough weapon, internal damage occur, even if the armor is a 100% HPs. That's why putting as many armor plating as possible really reduce the initial damage taken, but 1-3 plating won't prevent all damage unless the weapon is really weak.

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Mod Designer

hmm

Soumis par Phoenix-D le Ven, 2006-12-22 00:32

Tested two BSes, one with stealth/scattering/emissive, the other with that plus lots more emissive.

380 damage hit.
First BS took 57 armor damage and 82 internal damage.
Second BS took 63 armor damage and 0 internal damage.
15/25/25

63 - 57 = 12.3.
12.3/82 = 15%, which is the damage % of the emissive armor.

Interesting. How'd you discover that little quirk? As far as I can tell its just related to the amount of damage reduction on the ship and doesn't have anything to do with the Get_ function. It isn't actually blocking any damage, just redirecting it from the internals to the armor..

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Stupid field, need some artillery...

Soumis par Fallen Haven le Ven, 2006-12-22 01:58

Phoenix-D wrote:
Tested two BSes, one with stealth/scattering/emissive, the other with that plus lots more emissive.

380 damage hit.
First BS took 57 armor damage and 82 internal damage.
Second BS took 63 armor damage and 0 internal damage.
15/25/25

63 - 57 = 12.3.
12.3/82 = 15%, which is the damage % of the emissive armor.

Interesting. How'd you discover that little quirk? As far as I can tell its just related to the amount of damage reduction on the ship and doesn't have anything to do with the Get_ function. It isn't actually blocking any damage, just redirecting it from the internals to the armor..

Well, try with only one type of armor for each test, each type of armor have different stats and in that version the emissive can soak a lot of damage (also, use a weapon with no variation in damage from range or accuracy). I changed it a bit in the new upcomming version, the emissive can soak the same as normal armor, but then it reduce the damage to itself more than the other type of armor.

How i figured this out? I have a knack to find quirks in any game code by trying things and noticing the effects. Let's say this one took a while to fully figure it out, but now i think i found the ultimate way to make use of it.

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