Super Frigates

I tend to Max out hull sizes but I also start researching the next size as soon as it becomes available I generally have enough research to do this without much trouble I find each size of ship quite useful frigates make good picket ships. Destroyer’s good escorts and point defence ships cruisers and battle ships for heavy duty fleet work and carriers for raiding forces and defence duty

There's typically 3 levels for each ship class in the Balance Mod and the increase between levels is usually about 5-10% of the size. Overall though, the ships are generally smaller in size and there is no overlap between classes.

On the other hand, there's more "bonus" features in the hulls as some provide maintenance reduction or stuff of that sort.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

lvl 10 frigs with large ship mount .... sweet, very sweet

I like the idea of overlap between hull sizes as it gives you more options, choices and realism, without adding complexity to the game. Taking out the overlaps in the balance mod is a BadThing in my opinion. It takes choices and control away from the player and that is something you NEVER EVER want to do in a game, assuming your game can take the cost (which is negligible in SE5 since destroyer sized frigates aren't broken).

I know modern ships aren't supposed to be relevant to this discussion at all, but if that is the case, why have the traditional hull names (FF/Frigate, DD/Destroyer, CA/Cruiser etc) been maintained? When a ship needs to be made larger, they usually pull it into a shipyard and refit the thing to make it bigger, even it when it would be better but more expensive to build new ones, and as a result the old ships end up getting much larger, even to the point of making them new classes (Tico is essentially a stretched Spruance and can't really get any bigger without breaking it). In all honesty, ship classification these days is by function and by what you can sneak past the politicans in the defense budget, and not actual size. Since everyone "knows" a cruiser is bigger than a frigate, they won't let you build cruisers but they won't care if your new "frigates" just happen to be cruiser size. Yes, the world really _IS_ this dumb, and you can always get more money from the politicans by naming it after an ex-president thus showing your support for their cause

Once I get my research over 100K, I always max out the levels of all my ship classes. I really like this option.

I must admit this something I really like. I tend to go for fewer better ships rather than masses of naff ones. Being able to upgrade and increase the hull size fits right into my game plan, allowing me to have destroyers (tend to try and ignore frigates) that can still serve a usefull roll in even very late game, as refitted mine sweepers / point defence ships or as fast little assault ships, a couple of cargo holds shed loads of sheilds and PD allows them to slip into even the most heavily defended plants and escape most of the time.

Cutting out this overlap just annoys me, you only have to look at our military to see that naval ships have long life spans during which time they are often refitted to serve a number of different rolls. Refitting is cheaper and quicker (with the right infrastructure) than building new ships.

I really like the way there are 10 hull levels for each ship type. What bothers me is that I can't choose what size of hull I want to use. When I'm building colony ships I think smaller is better because they are cheaper and quicker to build. No need for a bunch of expensive junk on a colony ship that just gets wasted when it builds a colony. Just as there are buttons for ship type and design type there should be a button allowing us to select hull size from 1 to whatever level we've reached. I really hate to upgrade my colony ships because it means getting a hull that's too big for my needs so I tend to manually upgrade them to maintain a smaller hull. I also like to use smaller frigate hull sizes for recon ships as I want to keep them fast and nimble.

Please give us the ability to select hull size, that would be a great improvement to the game.

Geez Captain Kwok don't you have something better to do than bore us to tears with your incessant marketing of your unbalanced balance mod? While some may like it don't expect that a lot of us are going to mess up our stock game.
Omnius

I merely responded to a question by the original poster with a short and direct response. I apologize if that is a problem for you.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

If you want to simulate the levels, you can also make a design that doesn't use the full space the ship either. There's no real downside to that except maybe a couple hundred resources cost at most.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Captain Kwok,
You answer damn near every question with a plug for your mod and that constant drumbeat of marketing is getting annoying. If you're one of the beta testers then you should waste less time with your mod and invest more time actually beta testing the stock version. You're not doing this game any favors if you ignore making the stock version better.
Omnius

Captain Kowk,
Waste is Waste! Not only does that bigger useless hull space waste resources it also wastes time in construction. Don't forget that time is a resource best not wasted and having to build bigger hulls for no good reason wastes valuable time. I certainly hope MM will be aloof enough to add a feature to allow us to pick hull size in the future after the crash and burn bugs get fixed.
Omnius

Although you should also consider the maintenance savings on not maxing out the hull with components which add up quickly and beyond the small extra cost for the hull itself (we're talking 25 resources of each type for each level of small ship, etc).

Overall it's a part of the no old tech levels for any item in the game. I'm not sure how likely that is to change.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Seeing as how his mod manages to fix most of the balance issues in the stock game, pointing people at it is not that unreasonable. And attacking him over it is likely to get ugly.

edit:

Especially choosing THIS thread, where someone was asking about the balance mod, to do so in!

edit edit:

Let me define "ugly": ATM, I post when and where I feel like it, and feel I have something to contribute. Ugly is me deciding to target you specifically and join every single debate you get in... on the other side. Ugly is the others that find your behaviour disgraceful doing what they feel appropriate to remonstrate with you.

Ugly is what I call fun

_______________________
There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

It's ok Rilbur, let's not cloud up this thread with unnecessary junk!

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Anyhow I think factoring in the maint costs and filling up all the available space can be a reasonable workaround for not having access to earlier hulls.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Ok can we not have a scrap about the balance Mod it’s a good Mod and as Moding is one of the features of the game it is well it is thoroughly tested. I happen to prefer the stock version more personally but that’s my personal preference . The balance Mod is a good demonstration of the scope of possibility of Moding in this game and as such is a good thing. I am also sure that if Captain Kwock comes upon a fix useable in the stock game as well as the Mod he tells Aaron about it

Sorry... its a habit that I take any and all attacks on my friends (or just people I respect) rather personally. Since I doubly find his choice of threads to complain in an issue... and was posting right after having gotten up, when I'm notoriously cranky...

Lets just say I'm sorry for my overreaction.

_______________________
There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

(My return from lurking.)

My compliments Captain Kwok for that very diplomatic response to that first criticism. You have always been a great help on the forums. (Also,you were the first one to help me with SEIV as a newbie on the previous Strategy First site.)

I prefer official/stock games but I'm sure yours and others mods provide for players and the company.

We are all big boys (and girls maybe) here. We can all deal with criticism even if we prefer peace and serenity. These are forums that should and can be used for lively debates and critisism, as well as information.
Take a group of friends, for example. They are more than likely going to make criticisms to each other in any debate. one makes a counter response and moves on. No big deal. Now, as for when one becomes a social disruptor, I suppose that would be for the group to decide.

I, for one, sometimes like these criticisms and counter statements because it feels more like real discussion. I do not feel that anyone has "crossed the line".

-Wade

I haven't really dug into the Data files on SEV yet, (and since I'm at lunch break and my lappy is at home I can't answer my own question)

:Wouldn't it be possible to edit the tech formula for vehicle sizes to make it so no hulls become obsolete? I figure that would keep the different hull types Frigate LV1 LV2 LV3...etc. avalible for playing around with a particular tonnage. Aside from blowing the AI's gaskets and flooding the Vehcile Size menu with a few hundred sizes it would allow one to micromanage to their hearts content.

I agree that adding the Ship tech level and increasing hull sizes is a terrific addition. It is true that if were were to stick to 20th Century (err mostly US) Naval nomenclature you'd find that the frigate of the 1930's is not the Missle Frigate of today which rivals the tonnage of most WWII crusiers...hehe compare to Frigate or Corvette of the Sail Age...

It allows you to really stretch the limits where a Crusier-hull can be stretched into a true Battlecrusier (which is not so much of a class as a description) The Battleship expanded like mad from the HMS Dreadnaught to the IJN Yamato (might as well toss in the Montana and the Super Yamato...)

I would however think the opportunity to choose the different hull sizes with the obsolete ones may add another level of ship design consideration. A heavier frigate turns slower then the slightly slighter ones and may require a few more engines aiming for the good ol' QNP-style mass to thrust yada yada. Sort of peanut butter the Neo-Standard mods with the stock range.

The data files are out there, learn 'em and start modding the game to your liking!

I think they should just leave the cost setting the same for each level, and just have the ship's size increase. Seems like this would fix the thing with the wacky mine sizes and colony ships.

Um... what exactly are you describing? Increasing size without increasing cost still leaves the unfillable spaces on mines.
_______________________
There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

But then they wouldn't be any more expensive so it's less of a waste. Also forgot to add since this is more about the ship sizes, there really should be 1kt mine components to fill the space, like lets say "fragmenting plating" like they wrap around the hellfire missiles on those predatr drones. Increases the damage they do slightly.

Unfillable mines are not bad just because of slightly higher cost, they are bad because they take up more space on your cargo ship! Wasted space means that the mine loadout of a mine freighter contains that much less explodyness.