AI mods? |
Anyone out there making JUST an AI mod? (ship design and so on) because although the balance mod helps the AI it also changes the game too much for me 
I just want the AI to be somewhat functional and not enter into those really dumb treaties that it keeps trying to sucker me into
Well ok and to design ships worth using cuz I can't count how many dreadnaughts I have killed with destroyers because of poor design :/
Par for the course
The space empires series has long ignored the AI, leaving it to modders to make it even a basic challenge, because its primarily a multi-player game.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
SE Series not MP focused...
Err... based on what experience? Far more players play single-player than multi-player. The stock AI was ok in SE:IV, but of course made better by modders.
It's a time issue though. The AI in SE:V won't be anemic forever.
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I agree with Rilbur, as a
I agree with Rilbur, as a veteran of SEIII and SEIV I can say that the AI has always been a little weak, especially in SEIV. Fortunately the modding community was able to create some AI's that provide a challenge.
And the SEV AI is not completely useless. I colonized a planet in a neutral empire's home system and they attacked in force and glassed my new colony. Also the AI defends warp points much more agressively than in SEIV. To that point, given the way ships come through the warp point one at a time, if the AI simply built missile armed ships to defend warp points I think that alone would make the game much tougher.
Once the AI is modded to expand more, defend it's warp points with missile based designs and more units, and better ship design I don't think it will be so bad.
Primarly a MP game.I
Primarly a MP game.
I heavily disagree, this game doesn't lend itself well to MP at all, its just too complicated and drawn out so that any MP game will take AGES.
The MUCH simpler Sword of the Stars is barely doable as MP, as a good fast game can be settled in 3-4 hours sometimes.
Other than that you need a steady play group, and thats really bloody hard to get.
No, the ignoring of the AI is costing the developer of this game, and he should have focused ALL his attention on that and the few game breaking bugs, not made a 1.08 Demo that will certainly not win anyone over.
What however it does lend it self well to, is the tinkering experience of empire building over days and solid hour playing.
I like to bottle up a few systems, and let the AI try to take me down, thus I just do a all defense situation.
This is my preferred playstyle, but so far its denied to me as the AI doesn't really attack, he has the same supply problems as in SE IV , and the same AI design problems as in SE IV and just ALL the problems from SE IV.
Lessons has not been learned in the AI department 
Janster
not
I heavily disagree, this game doesn't lend itself well to MP at all, its just too complicated and drawn out so that any MP game will take AGES.
Dude I could not disagree with you more. This game is all about multi-player. You just haven't faced an opponent until you have faced another sentient player. The computer AI just can not compare to the flexibility and adaptability of a human opponent.
Play a little SE4 here: http://seiv.pbw.cc
It will take you a month or two but I swear it will be worth it.
Solo for me.....
However, my preference is for solo play as well. I'm looking for the best battle an AI can give me.
missiles?
And the SEV AI is not completely useless. I colonized a planet in a neutral empire's home system and they attacked in force and glassed my new colony. Also the AI defends warp points much more agressively than in SEIV. To that point, given the way ships come through the warp point one at a time, if the AI simply built missile armed ships to defend warp points I think that alone would make the game much tougher.
Once the AI is modded to expand more, defend it's warp points with missile based designs and more units, and better ship design I don't think it will be so bad.
well I would say that missiles are great for defending from the enemy side but direct fire weapons are better for defending the blind side 
(since you start bunched around the warp point that the enemy has to enter it's better to use beams in that situation because range isn't a factor since you start at point blank range and so the higher damage shorter range weapons really make a killing in that kind of defense.)
I think one of the biggest problems with the AI is that it can't design a good ship for nothing... I mean when I can make light cruisers that can take out AI dreadnaughts without a scratch then there's something wrong. (I know some people can make destroyers or even frigates that can do the same lol but I prefer light cruisers.)
The AI in SE:V is MUCH slower to develop defenses although until it meets another AI it expands fairly well compared to SE:IV which MIGHT colonize 2-3 systems and 2 or 3 planets in each (even if they have 10+ planets) which made em kinda worthless.... in SE:IV it was pretty much guarantee'd that if you entered a major enemy system and then came back 10 turns later you'd hit a minefield on that warp point... now 50+ turns later still no warp point defense at all :/
The AI won't even stop me from fortifying the warp point on IT'S side of the thing... I started by sending a very lightly armed mobile construction ship and it sat for 5 turns building a starbase... AI ignored it... then I proceeded to fill it with 93 large fighters... AI ignored it... (and that took a long time lol) and then I decided to build and launch 150 satellites (large) and STILL the AI ignored it... eventually it FINALLY decides to attack with a totally inadequate force (8 dreadnaughts) that didn't even manage to get in range of their missiles before being reduced to debris. (fighters are too potent because PD will not fire on them automatically. not that the AI had any PD on it's dreads.)
On a side note... How good a defense is a set of 150 satellites
25 beam, 100 missile, 25 PD set in rows of 25 first row beam 2nd through 5th missile and finally a row of PD... all fit as tightly together in as possible hehe.. I forgot to stop the base from launching til I saw how the sats worked so I still don't know and the AI is sulking over it's total annihilation the last time it attacked BTW all sats have a maxtech polarized shield but no armor I think... beams have 2 electrical discharge, missiles are a single seeker parasite, and PD are 2 mesons (nor organic PD what's with that )
I don't play MP much just because I don't really enjoy one turn per day play of PBEM's anymore(I'm getting too old and impatient lol). (I absolutely loved the TCP/IP option of SE:IV gold even though it was more or less just an automated file swapping subroutine since it did what was needed with little effort) from what I've read here I dunno if SE:V's TCP/IP feature is going to be worth using. Bugs aside I really like a lot of the changes between SE:IV and SE:V but I think the game desperately needs a REAL TCP/IP mode where it really plays the game with a direct connection instead of just file swapping in the background hehe. I think if it adds that level of play then it will become a lot more popular with the rest of the TBS community. Never lose the PBEM functionality of the series though but taking advantage of the direct play possibilities as well would be nice.
LOL
I heavily disagree, this game doesn't lend itself well to MP at all, its just too complicated and drawn out so that any MP game will take AGES.
The MUCH simpler Sword of the Stars is barely doable as MP, as a good fast game can be settled in 3-4 hours sometimes.
Other than that you need a steady play group, and thats really bloody hard to get.
Oddly enough, people DO find those kinds of groups and go for (in some cases) YEARS on a single game.
Strange how much some people SCREAM for a fixed demo so it actually shows the true game, while others complain about it 
Lessons has not been learned in the AI department
Janster
Same as my playstyle, but again, its not a problem for a game that is DESIGNED to be modded. Yes, stock should be playable, but its a learning tool to prepare you for the real game... the mods
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Yarr.. The game lends
Yarr..
The game lends itself to MP and its probably awesome in an MP situation, but I've played Hearts of Iron 2 online, and it was really really hard to get games going, with dedicated groups, but when we did, it was VERY fun.
That said, the AI is still important, as for the 1.08 demo, it doesn't show the game, cause its still buggy like all hell
This game becomes primary a SP fodder, and thus needs to shine in that department aswell.
A good AI helps here, leaving that to the modders is fine, but I thought by number V in the row he'd actually stick an okay AI in there.
Here is a summary of what the AI needs.
It needs to NOT use diplmacy much.
NO treaties whatsoever.
It needs to NOT use ships and equipment it doesn't understand.
It builds way too much bases and drones and junk, make him ONLY build ships, its enough.
Of his ships, make him build ships that doesn't use ordonance.
Just these small steps, will make the AI not crash the game from making 2342342 satelites.
And it will also make the AI very dangerous as it will have large fleets.
Currently it has no ships at all almost.
Regards
Janster
Try the Balance Mod...
Have you tried a game with the Balance Mod yet? The AI will do a lot more than in stock, particularly if you give them a low bonus.
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php
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Balance Mod Suggestion Hey
Balance Mod Suggestion
Hey Kwok, can you do something about bases and there ability to get pwned by even lowely frigates toe-to-toe (even when frigates are in range)
Can you make an Armor Mount for bases? It's just a little frustraiting to see that a single ship can take out a base.
It should be required for at least 3 ships to take out a base of equal tech.
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
SY or Defense Base?
Are you attack a SY Base or a defense base? It does make a difference since one of them is armed and the other is not?
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I think the AI as it is, is
I think the AI as it is, is a bit ordinary, I had about 300 turns with 19 AI's at hard and the closest AI to me, has 60 ships and 14 colonies (in a 255 system galaxy) which can easily be beaten.
I stopped playing last weekend and am probly going try again after a patch which states (did extensive work on AI).
AI has been terrible in both, SE4 and SE5
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I have to say that I am carrying an increasing grudge against Aaron for the buggy, entirely incomplete status in which he publishes his games (I only have SE4 and SE5, maybe it is different with the rest). Releasing SE5 in a status which is - if not unplayable - at least entirely unenjoyable is in my eyes essentially ripping his customers off. The fact that so far he has released frequent patches which very much improve the game over the period of several years (although fo everything beyond SE4 1.49 you had to pay again) is very honorable and the reason why I bought SE5 after my SE4 experience. Nevertheless, a niche producer like him should have had more respect in the first place for the trust his fanbase put into him when pre-ordering SE5.
When you learn how to
When you learn how to :
Program a game
Compose its music
Create 3d models
Texture 3d models
Create content
and script an AI
...SOLO!
Then you might be justified to carry a grudge.
On top of that you've got hundreds, if not thousands of SE fans screaming for the games release. What could he do...
And you can bet your ass that Strategy First was on his case for release as well since they're the ones taking the orders.
Just give him time, he'll sort it out.
If the game is unplayable for you in the meantime, theres a whole world of stuff to do till it's patched up. For example, I'm tidying the shithole that I call an office to accomodate my new 50" HDTV (well, monitor actually hint hint). And on top of that i'm creating a full shipset.
Stop bitching, do something constructive and make the world a better place.
Now i'm going to stop bitching and log off and finish tiding this mess...Byeeeee
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
No Wai
... WTF are you talking about? The original version "upgrades" to the newest version for free.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
now
... WTF are you talking about? The original version "upgrades" to the newest version for free.
NOW it does. When SE4 Gold first game out it didn't.
Yepp, I was a bit unhappy
Yepp, I was a bit unhappy when I noticed I had to pay again to get the 'gold' features, but then again, the guy needs money so okay.
SE IV had an AI that is soooooo much alike the SE V AI its just plain scary. I Guess work has gone into making the RTS combat AI somewhat decent, but the regular turn based AI is identically sucky as the SE IV.
Now while I understand he's a 1 man company, I just don't get how you can ignore the AI that much, if its a simple task of modding the AI to make it better, he should NOT have left it up to the players to fix it.
Reason for this, is the very very bad reviews he will get cause of the brokeness of the game.
He should have gone for the simpler stuff first, reeled those in, then put out the patches to add more complicated stuff.
Janster
You do not need to be an actor to criticise a film
Program a game
Compose its music
Create 3d models
Texture 3d models
Create content
and script an AI
...SOLO!
Then you might be justified to carry a grudge.
...
Sorry...? If you go to the bakery in the morning, buy a bread and then realize at home that it is awful, half rotten and actually only half of a loaf, are you a happy, patient customer just because your own bakery skills are (I assume) not very strong? I carry a grudge because I paid 35$ or so expecting a complete, largely well-working game. What I got was a shell, with quite promising (, albeit buggy,) mechanics, a great tactical combat simulator but not being a working game. It is missing the most essential part of that, namely AI adversaries which are not entirely braindead (the fact that one could play it multiplayer does not help me, because that is not possible for me in terms of available time). The fact that many publishers do the same as Aaron does not really make it better. With the great support history of SE4, Aaron probably had build an excellent standing with many in the community, but for me, the "beta release" of SE5 has destroyed a lot of this.
So I am not "bitching", as you say so charmingly, just for the sake of it. Many will probably not agree with this, but I would actually like to disourage people from buying the game in its current state. I feel that companies should have an incentive to release well-working, largely bug-free games. Honest, open feedback on relevant foums may help a bit to create these incentives.
As soon as Aaron (or the modders) have brought SE5 to a state where it provides an enyoable challenge beyond its initial "news value", I will testify to that accomplishment (I actually convinced several friends to buy SE4 Gold), but until then, my open and honest feedback is that SE5 at this point in time is by far not worth 35$, sorry.
Well I think the modders
Well I think the modders should send their AI upgrades to MM so he can fold them into the standard game. If they sent it in the right format and with clear instructions, it should just be a matter of cut and past. They should also provide info on how it improved the AI and if it’s been field-tested by the community.
Agreed.
That sort of thing would be an definate step forward. With only one guy working on the series,it is unlikely for the games to keep up with the Galactic Civilization series, which could be troublesome for those of us that like the particular brand of 4X that Space Empires brings to the table. By having the community creating content for the stock game, that could help keep the Space Empires series competive and allow for the chance for an repackaging of the latest title for an attempt at redemption.
Poor attitude..
Program a game
Compose its music
Create 3d models
Texture 3d models
Create content
and script an AI
...SOLO!
Then you might be justified to carry a grudge.
Sorry, Havoc. I don't mind waiting, but your attitude really gets me. You act like he's doing us a favor by releasing this game. Uh, we are PAYING for it. If this were the same type of service you got for food, cars, housing or other products...I HIGHLY doubt you would be so....understanding.
Yes, he has a hard road ahead of him and he IS very talented. But he IS charging for his work, so people have EVERY right to complain about the product he produces, if they are not satisfied with it.
Seriously. If you took your girlfriend out to dinner and got your food half cooked and not in the portions you were promised, you mean to tell me you would pay the bill and just tell your girlfriend that he will get it right the next time we come by????
I HIGHLY doubt it. How would you feel if the manager told you that he only has one cook in the back and he's doing the best he can? I doubt you would be as...understanding as you are here.
But to Aaron (the developer?), kickass game buddy (seriously, no sarcasm here). I enjoy it, but I will come back when it is in better shape.
Oh
... WTF are you talking about? The original version "upgrades" to the newest version for free.
NOW it does. When SE4 Gold first game out it didn't.
By the time I found out about it, it was free for me to upgrade. I wasn't paying all that much attention at that time, I'd lost my internet access.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Tougher AI's
You just need to be a little patient for now. I'm sure some of the modders are already working on new ones for SEV.
After spending a long while away from SEIV, I'm working on recreating my Orks (using a different name for them though) for SEV. It is taking me a lot longer to figure out how the AI's in SEV work, and I have to redesign the ships from scratch for SEV. I'm guessing it will take me a month or two yet before I feel comfortable with releasing them, hopefully some of the others will have better AI's sooner.
Personally I'm hoping to see some stuff from Master Belisarius, Alpha Kodiak, dogscoff, and Mephisto.
If Deathstalker, Master Belisarius, Alpha Kodiak, or dogscoff are around; Hi.
Atraikius
AI recoding
I may seem new, but I've been a lurker for SE:IV and since buying SE:V, I have been putting my spare time into recoding the AI. I was considering putting up a post here or going to the wiki and making a stub to state as much. It is a big project if any of you have looked into the utilities folder and read through the AI scripts. Alot can (and does) go wrong when trying to get something to think like a human. In any case I am going to try to step up to the occasion and see what kind of AI I can put together for this thing.
Dragagon
Warhammer 40K?
Are you making a Warhammer 40K mod?
Good Luck
Dragagon
Good luck and keep us posted.
Warhammer 40K mod
No, not a Warhammer 40K mod, I had just intended to make ship sets (with AI's) for SEIV; but I only finished the Orks and Chaos ships sets. The Orks AI turned out pretty good, and was fairly popular for a while (look in the TDM-modpack for SEIV for them). Now I am starting them over from scatch (the poly count of the old models was way to high), and changing their name and a few other items to avoid copyright issues for SEV.
Atraikius
Quote:Yes, he has a hard
Seriously. If you took your girlfriend out to dinner and got your food half cooked and not in the portions you were promised, you mean to tell me you would pay the bill and just tell your girlfriend that he will get it right the next time we come by????
I HIGHLY doubt it. How would you feel if the manager told you that he only has one cook in the back and he's doing the best he can? I doubt you would be as...understanding as you are here.
Hmmm.... I don't think your analogy is accurate for most of the people posting here. A more accurate analogy would be taking your girlfriend to your favorite local restaurant where one guy ran everything, serving, cooking, finances, etc. So normally you go to this restaurant and have "The Special" which is very good. Today you bring your GF along and the restaraunt owner says "Oh hey I have a new version of my special would you like to try it?" you say sure! Unfortunately the special is not quite perfected yet but the owner assures you he will keep working on it, but in the meantime he makes you a dish of the old special (you can get SE4 and SE5 in one package at gamestop I believe)
Would you really be so angry? If you are still angry in that scenario, I'd have to say you are a jerk and Good day sir.
It is interresting to me how
It is interresting to me how the developer has so blatantly ignored AI design.
This cruddy AI will make most people cringe after playing the game a few turns.
I mean, one thing is to have a shoddy AI like Sword of the Stars had pre-patch, but another thing is to have a non-functional one.
Hopefully some tinkering into design my yield some better results, but methinks hardcoding is needed here.
Dumb the AI's design down, leave it with less choices, and make it atleast able to choose those.
Janster