Home Crush your enemies... and create an EMPIRE!!! Space Empires V -- BUY NOW!!!

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

Navigation

  • news
    • archive
    • blogs
    • books
    • forums
    • recent posts
    • groups
  • image galleries
  • projects & downloads
  • search
  • create content
  • news aggregator

Search

Who's online

There are currently 2 users and 116 guests online.

Online users

  • Wenla
  • Firzen_Zero

Languages

  • English English
  • French French

Browse archives

« Juillet 2008  
Lu Ma Me Je Ve Sa Di
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31      
Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Fri, 2008-04-18 18:15. Space Empires V General

I found that cost for a colony, especially given how much and how quickly it gives back, to be rediculously low. Especially when compared to some other items such as the space port.

Colony cost Minerals 2000, Organics 3000, Radioactives 1000
Space Port costs Minerals 6000, Organics 1000, Radioactives 500

With the costs being so low it allows me to easily in the early stages to colonise any and every piece of rock in sight. In my current game in the 1st year I have colonised 3 planets in the next system and am reaping in the resources etc

Which brings up a 2nd point, how quickly my colony is up and running and can contribute to the empire.

For myself, this takes away from the 4x feel.

My intent it to have it so I must decide if to colonise that tiny spec called a planet or to try and find something better. It will also then make me use scout ships to scout rather than Colony ships as the loss of a Colony ship will now really hurt.

I have decided to start by adjusting the Colonisation module to cost 10x; Minerals 20000, Organics 30000, Radioactives 10000.

Is there a way to make it so that the Colony process takes say a year to be 'up and running'?

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

‹ SE5 with sava problems Spring Sale on Space Empires Bundle ›
» login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Kilson on Fri, 2008-04-18 22:33.

I think You could mod the population Bonus to a negitve if the population is to low say a -90% build rate for 1-25 million pop and just step it down the down side is a domed tiny rock will never get a large enough population to get normal build rates.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Sat, 2008-04-19 00:03.

With the changes a Colony ship now taking 1.2 years to build.

I now really value the Colony ships and will use them carefully for fear of loosing one. I also will have to plan their construction among other competing needs so it will also add a little more strategy.

Kilson,
That wouldn't work for the way I hope to shape the game. That is, I wish to bring the population growth down from the amazing level it is at now and set it at a initial rate of 3-5%. This will make my expansion dependent more on my races happiness so as to make the planets that are more unpleasant far less desirable to colonise in the early game until I have researched the modifiers.

Sadly at the moment the population set-up in the Settings.txt does not appear to be working and my population grows in the millions each turn, very gamey!

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

» login or register to post comments
Astorax's picture

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Astorax on Sat, 2008-04-19 03:08.

Teddy, you should check out a mod called Proportions. You seem to be recreating alot of things its doing and you could probably use some of the same code/ideas.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Sat, 2008-04-19 18:34.

Astorax,
Thanks for the heads up on Proportions. It would seem that it was a once off, does not have a 1.71 update and it also has no design consideration for AI, so sadly this is no good to me.

Whilst I am predominately a single player I am interested in a multi player game, but even then I would want AI in there that would add to the game.

My ideal SE V would be where I cannot spam the universe from the 1st go and where I would have to be mindful and respectful of other AI's as I was not in a position to create massive armada's early on.

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by rditto48801 on Mon, 2008-04-21 00:40.

I have some opinions myself.

Increasing colonizing cost:

I don't really see a problem with the cost being low.
I could accept x2, I would barely tolerate x3, but not x10.

Comparing the colonizing components to the space port.
colony components are 200k
space port is 1000k
So, tonnage per tonnage, the colony component already costs more than the space port does.

Also, it makes no sense to make a colony component cost close the amount of Stellar Manipulation components.

Making a little colony with basic infrastructure should not cost close to the amount needed to make an entire freaking planet.

Also, the problem with having a colony ship taking 1.2 years to make...
Um... I think we're adding weight to the wrong side of the balance scale here...
How many frigates could someone make in the time and with the amount of resources it takes to make one of these 'expensive' colony ships?
Player A is lucky, spends a few years building three colony ships, their few scouts have not run into anyone yet.
Player B is not so lucky, only built one colony ship, no other planets worth cost to colonize, builds many frigates to quickly explore and find planets worth colonizing.
Player A gets 2 years of Frigate production shoved down their throat a few months after first contact with player B, when B finds out they have a major advantage...

Let's not make SE V a prime canidate for 'tank rush' tactics...

Lowering population production:

Changing the production for small populations is not going to be very effective. With a homeworld with 4,000 million people, a simple cargo pod on a colony ship, or a small freighter, means a new colony will easily have well over 25 million colonists with little time/effort.
Also have to consider imigration. Even at 1% per year, with a planet of 4,000 million, that comes down to a few million per turn moving to other colonies if I understand the numbers correctly.

My PoV.
During initial founding of a colony, colonists will be unpacking all their supplies and equipment as fast as possible and get their basic shelters setup also.
People can actually build stuff rather fast when they aren't being paid to take 90% of their time goofing off and 10% of their time actually working. (capital punishment sounds like a good penalty for risking a race's survival just to have time to goof off...)

As is, a colony component has 80% of its 'space' for other stuff, likely supplies, and lots of equipment, tools, etc. A million people with proper tools and basic machinery will be able to produce as much as a small factory (space yard) that has a a few people watching over a bunch of construction robots and people using heavy duty construction machinery.

Even in WWII, a few hundred people could churn out whole ships or bases in a matter of a few months, should be an easy task for a million people of a more advanced race to get far more done in the same amount of time.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Mon, 2008-04-21 04:39.

rditto48801 ,
Thanks for the in depth reply, you make some very good points. Especially in regards to cost vs tonnage.

As for the amount of time it takes to produce space ships, I feel that for the combat ships probably they are a tad fast. After all they are far more complicated and sophisticated than a simple old freighter.

I also feel that the game is generally a tad fast as I can spam the universe and have 3-5 colonies up and running as well as pulling serious resources into the empire all in a year. But a lot of that comes down to how quickly one can setup the new colony.

Regarding the 'tank rush', I do not see how now it is any different to how it is now?

Setting up a colony should not take long. For a colony to contribute in a meaningful way to the Empire should.

As it is now, it is so cheap and easy that one can easily populate any scrap of rock spamming the universe. There is no tactical decisions to be made regarding if one should colonise this planet or wait for something better.

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Brad on Mon, 2008-04-21 06:33.

In the latest (currently unreleased) version of the Ground Combat mod, I'm trying an idea to make colonies more valuable. You see, in stock, there's no point dropping troops for a ground invasion - it's far more efficient to just glass a planet and recolonise it. I first tried increasing the cost of colony modules by 10x, but that just made the early game incredibly slow and didn't actually solve the problem in later stages when high-level space yards can still crank out colony ships quite quickly anyway. So what I am currently trialling is that most facilities can only be built on undomed colonies. You can basically build those that are required - resource extraction, space ports, resupply depots, intel and research - but if you want to take full advantage of everything (resource modifiers, space yards, support facilities) you need to get rid of those domes. Either through atmospheric modification if you manage to research that far, or better yet through capturing enemy population.

The point of this rather long-winded post is that there are ways to make colonies harder to build up to the point of significant economic contribution without playing around with resource costs of colony components.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Kalin on Mon, 2008-04-21 06:38.

To make colonies take longer to develop, all you have to do is increase the cost of facility construction (and reduce their maintenance cost proportionally). This will mean quick land grabbing with colony ships, but long development times.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Mon, 2008-04-21 16:58.

Brad,
I play the option of only my atmosphere type and I can still colonise everything in sight.

Some of it might come down to the modifiers for the planet type not being optimum being too kind, but I am a newby to the game and can only guess till I get my head around what does and does not work.

I saw a setting that some have implemented regarding "Population Required to Operate One Facility", hopefully this is working and will work some way to making new colonies less instant cash. However it would appear that the population growth values are not functioning as the population grows by the millions per turn, not per year.

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by capnq on Tue, 2008-04-22 04:47.

Teddy Bär wrote:
However it would appear that the population growth values are not functioning as the population grows by the millions per turn, not per year.
Are you factoring in migration as well as growth?

If the net population growth percentage is positive, the planet is going to add at least 1M per turn, because that's the minimum "unit" of population.

-----
"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by marhawkman on Tue, 2008-04-22 10:07.

and with migration you don't NEED to have people in your colony ship at all. It's more effective to load it with weapon platforms. Honestly.... I like it as is. Why?

eXplore

eXpand--

eXploit--

eXterminate

It forms TWO of the four Xs.

» login or register to post comments

Re: Colonisation costs too low, but how much should they be?

Submitted by Teddy Bär on Tue, 2008-04-22 16:46.

capnq,
Thanks for the minimum unit info. It would appear that "Reproduction Check Frequency" only uses a single digit.

When I had it set to 10 equal a year, I was getting population explosions, but since setting it to 9 it would appear that the population is now only going up slowly.

The population has been rising a million per year.

Cheers,

Teddy Bär

» login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Now on STEAM

Now on STEAM!Space Empires V via STEAMSpace Empires IV via STEAMSTEAM online by Valve Corporation

Popular content

Today's:

  • Research By Percentage SUCKS
  • Cloaked Warp Points
  • Capturing suicidal colony ships of Balance Mod AI empires
  • Space Empires V 1.74
  • Space Empires V

All time:

  • Space Empires V and VI: Expansions and the Future: Tell the Company What's on Your Wish List
  • Space Empires V
  • Gritty Galaxy Fleet Clash
  • Damn Dirty Bugs/Annoyances
  • Space Empires V: General Thoughts, Observations, and Suggestions

Last viewed:

  • Escape key priority
  • DevnullMod
  • Saved games
  • A Potential mod.
  • SEV crashes when trying to make a sphere world.
(c) Strategy First, Inc. All rights reserved.