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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V Multiplayer

Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Tron on Sat, 2008-04-12 23:19. Space Empires V Multiplayer

Simultaneous is "at the same time", "real time" NOT any form of turn based.
When I started doing research for the next gen Master of Orion game I wanted a real time multiplayer capability. This was my main requirement. There were two real contenders: SE and Galactic Civilizations. All reviewers agreed that GC had much superior AI but for those who wanted to play human opponents SE was the one! It was described as having both turn based and SIMULTANEOUS play options. So I went with SE... Now, after researching, testing and learning the game for over a month, I finally got to testing its multiplayer component on my LAN. And what do I discover? The local definition of simultaneous is still turn based!!!
Yes this is a 4X game, but for most people, combat is the component that is the most fun! And combat where a player cannot intervene directly is a quarter of the fun. Ship strategies are great but not if that is the only way to control your forces.
SEV was made in 2006. Homeworld was released in 1999 and it had true real time multiplayer combat executed over TCP/IP and rendered in real 3D! Homeworld's source code had been released a long time ago, so why is this feature such a mystery?
Above all, the game play must be dynamic or else it is not fun. I have a lot of respect for Aaron Hall for creating such a complex game, but I truly hope he will read this post and direct his next efforts to this aspect of the project. Playing human opponents will always present the best challenges and real time multiplayer is the most engaging way to play!

‹ Roreign relationship New Player for Stock SEV game Clash of the Titans Needed ›
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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by ForesterSOF on Sun, 2008-04-13 10:09.

SE is a Turn Based Strategy game. Not a First Person Shooter.

If you want only combat then try the MMORPG stuff.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Caius on Sun, 2008-04-13 12:00.

Ah, RTS. Please pause while I host my crackers. IMO SEV is not a shooter as mentioned. For people who are interested in s eye candy game or a RTS quickest mouse click type, SEV is not it. The game box does mention it is a Space Strategy somewhere.

Caius

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Tron on Sun, 2008-04-13 15:55.

No I don't want a first person shooter and no, I am not after eye candy for its own sake. I want an intellectually stimulating game with the depth of MOO2 and fleet action and realism of Harpoon.
My beef is that this game was described and promoted as the market leader largely on its multiplayer capability. And multiplayer was described as beeing BOTH turn-based and simultaneous. But I cannot think of any dictionary that defines simultaneous as turn-based. This, to me, is nothing but misleading advertising and had I known that SEV was only turn based I would have stayed with MOO2 and waited for something else to come along. And if anyone has any doubt as to how happy the multiplayer community is with SE5, they only need to read the corresponding threads on this forum... For those that are not interested in PBW or PBEM, the gameplay is tedious to the point of unplayable.
However, there is no reason that I can think of why RTS cannot be implemented in SE. As I said in my earlier post, it could add immeasurably to the quality of gameplay, for directing a carrier group to pull back or a strike group to flank - is not micromanagement but real strategy.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Ender on Sun, 2008-04-13 16:35.

It is not strategy, it is tactics. For those that want to play mere generals or even colonels there are RTS games. For us that want to play emperors there is SEV with simultaneous turns, fortunately. It would be much better to polish and debug current features than to add a new one.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Fyron on Sun, 2008-04-13 18:03.

This thread is silly... simultaneous means moves are executed at the same time. Nowhere does it mean real time execution. Some simultaneous play games are done in real time, certainly, but many are not. BOTF had simultaneous strategic game processing, it was not real time. The last Risk game made by... some company... had a simultaneous mode where everyone issued their orders, then they all happened in a separate phase, more or less at the same time. Etc., etc., etc.

Quote:
However, there is no reason that I can think of why RTS cannot be implemented in SE.
Because its fundamentally wrong for the style of game SE is. Implementing a second real time engine in addition to the main-stream sequential/simultaneous turn based modes would require redoing ~90% of the game code. Let's just get one working game here, instead of trying to make 2 completely different games in one... You are looking for Sins of a Solar Empire, not Space Empires.


SpaceEmpires.net | Space Empires Wiki

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Tron on Sun, 2008-04-13 19:24.

Well, if I knew that this is how people here felt - I wouldn't have bothered starting this thread and I certainly wish I knew that for creators of this game simultaneous didn't mean real time.

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Mod Designer

Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by SuicideJunkie on Sun, 2008-04-13 21:18.

Simultaneous is a word with a completely different meaning from Continuous.

Simultaneous means "at the same time".
As opposed to Sequential, which means "one after the other".

A Simultaneous turn based game therefore has players do turns, which happen at the same time.

If English is not your first language, I could see you getting confused, but anger is not appropriate.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Tron on Mon, 2008-04-14 01:56.

Just for the record, I am not angry - just frustrated. On the subject of me misunderstanding: prior to this game, I have never heard of simultaneous turn based games so to me it was a contradiction of terms. I was going over my research with a friend and he understood this the exact same way. Here was the review I found for SEV on Gamespot: "Space Empires V offers multiplayer, with options for both simultaneous-move and turn-based play." After going to SEV's site for clarification, I found no clear description anywhere of what the game's features actually were. Once you understand something, it is easy to be surprised how someone may "not get it" but if you try to put yourself in my shoes back then - the perspective changes. I think that for others, like myself, who may be new to this concept of simultaneous turn based games, a clearer description on the site of what the game is would go a long way towards preventing such misunderstandings.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Ender on Mon, 2008-04-14 06:10.

Simultaneous turn based game is nothing new. Just to name: Stars!, Alfa Centauri, Civilization III,IV, Birth of the Federation and these games have long history, AC and BotF 9 years and especially Stars! 13 years. They probably did not think in Malfador that after years of existing in 4X games community this term needed any clarification.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by SuicideJunkie on Mon, 2008-04-14 13:58.

Quote:
"Space Empires V offers multiplayer, with options for both simultaneous-move and turn-based play."
I wish I was surprised by that quality of journalism... But I've never heard anything good about reviewers.

A competent editor should have corrected that.
A reviewer who knew the basics of multiplayer gaming should not have written that in the first place.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Tron on Tue, 2008-04-15 01:00.

SuicideJunkie wrote:
Quote:
"Space Empires V offers multiplayer, with options for both simultaneous-move and turn-based play."
I wish I was surprised by that quality of journalism... But I've never heard anything good about reviewers.

A competent editor should have corrected that.
A reviewer who knew the basics of multiplayer gaming should not have written that in the first place.

Thank you for your understanding. That's all I wanted.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by dan3260 on Thu, 2008-04-17 18:21.

Fyron wrote:
...Implementing a second real time engine in addition to the main-stream sequential/simultaneous turn based modes...

The game already has real-time combat, so it's not like they would be re-inventing the wheel.

All that needs doing is real-time combat over a LAN, both pcs are connected all the time, surely it can be done.

And also, I can't see how any of you came to the conclusion that the OP wanted to play FPS games. NO, he just wants this game to have combat in multiplayer.

To the OP, I agree it can be slightly misleading about the Simultaneous Turns, I too thought that it meant that combat could be played in multiplayer.

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Mod Designer

Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Fyron on Thu, 2008-04-17 18:40.

dan3260 wrote:
The game already has real-time combat, so it's not like they would be re-inventing the wheel.
Yes, yes they would. A real time combat engine is nice and all, but its a tiny subset of the game's functionality.


SpaceEmpires.net | Space Empires Wiki

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Gusset on Sat, 2008-04-19 01:56.

All the same, though, give it a try in multiplayer. While you cannot directly control your ships in a tactical combat environment in a multiplayer SEV game, customizing your ship designs and strategies, and testing them in the simulator, is very fulfilling.

I speak as one who has been playing online MOO2 for the past 9 (10?) years. SEV is a worthy successor, though it falls into a different genre in my personal classification, since you cannot complete a game of SEV in one sitting like you can a MOO2 game.

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by Fyron on Sat, 2008-04-19 02:48.

Sure you can; it just depends on the game settings. Maximize the map size in MOO2 and you'll need one marathon single sitting to get through it. Likewise, if you play on a small map, you can get through SE5 games in a reasonable time frame (especially so if you lower the size of small quadrants Eye-wink).


SpaceEmpires.net | Space Empires Wiki

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Re: Simultaneous=Real Time !!! (Not Turn based)

Submitted by benc on Tue, 2008-04-22 10:37.

its the question of variety...

Maybe it can exist as an option, but for sure majority want to develop the main part of the game and not to add the new

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