SE:V History v1.70

Awesome. I guess number 3 means less stacking?

Glad to the see the updates coming along. Thanks.

-Unnamed

Unnamed Mod

Still nothing in the "Alliances" front?

Have you submitted a bug report with a savegame demonstrating the issue(s) to ?

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sweeeeet I must say these are some very great changes, Im not a modder so for me these are some of the best changes

4. Changed - "Only Engines", "Only Weapons", and "Only Shield Generators" damage types now penetrate both shields and armor.

19. Fixed - Shield Imploders were not causing internal damage.

20. Fixed - Weapons will no longer fire on targets that are not effected by the weapon's damage

4. Fixed - Ships would uncloak when a game was loaded.

when will the changes come out for the steam users? will it be like a week after the release of the official release?...ish

4. Changed - "Only Engines", "Only Weapons", and "Only Shield Generators" damage types now penetrate both shields and armor.

----- This change is huge.... I could imagine everyone to instantly start using these weapons, making shields pretty useless as you could hit the generators directly all the time. You can also use only engines and only weapons combined to render enemy ships unable to fight nor flee and be able to capture them without difficulty. You could build entire fleets armed only with these kinds of weapons as they skip both armor AND shields.

I question the balance of this.

First, you can change this by modding DamageTypes.txt.
Second, remember that if you haven't researched a component, you can't repair, so capturing ship is less usefull if you destroy engine/weapon/shield generator.
Third, try to disable engines/weapons/shield generators when the enemy ship would fire to destroy you...
Forth, the enemy also can use this kind of weapons...

I think it's only standard shields that they would skip, someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong

Great...this sounds awesome

unfortunately i will have to give up my current game

Yay for 1.70 #4 ^_^...Those weapons have a use again!

Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go to this Wiki if interested. No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE

#3 (1.69), Aaron came through!! Now I can do my AI FTL scripting!!

Great, now we have to make sure that the major MODs work and I can start a new game

Huge amount of fixes! Some of the things fixed were really annoying.

Does 1.69 #27 anforces the 100 mines per sector limit, too? That would really make them useless...

Sorry, double post...

1.69#27 actually has me worried. Does this mean that if I've got 50 satellites deployed to stop an incursion into the system from the local warp point, that my carriers also stationed in the warp point's sector can only launch 50 fighters, with more to launch as the enemy burns away the cheap satellites?

I can change the limit to whatever I want, but for only playing PBW (and mostly BM) at the moment, that will be of little use to me. I think enforcing the limit will take mines out of the game entirely. You only need one mine sweeping freighter in every fleet to sweep 100 mines...

@ Captain Kwok: Will you change the limits in BM and Nova?

Its good to see that most changes now are not of the "why haven't they done this a long time ago" variety.

Kwok, is that per unit type, as in per fighter, per drone? Or is it per unit type and size, per small drone, per medium drone, per large drone, etc?

Fighters recover (if there is a carrier for them to recover to) at the end of combat as I recall, but drones do not. In my current game (I'm testing out an idea I had for increasing ship sizes) I held off a warp point assault by a very large fleet of crystalline ships - including over 250 drones that got carried over due to the time limit. Now, obviously were they fighters they couldn't have retired to their carriers, since I destroyed them all. Drones, though, don't return to their carrier, so what would have happened to those 150 drones that exceeded the 100 unit limit?

Per unit type.

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Then, what does happen at the end of a combat where more than 100 drones are launched by one side and survive?

100 mines per sector will make mines almost useless as it is far too easy to build a ship that can take out 100+ mines in longer games.

Or every ship in a fleet having a sweep component.

The changes look interesting.

There are some interesting looking script functions.

It would be nice if there was a script function that would check for 'size' of stellar objects to calculate the max number of something that can interact with it or be 'on' it.

Like perhaps no more solar collectors or space yards than planet size (tiny = 1, small = 2, etc), or perhaps asteroid field size relate to the max number of robo miners etc that can mine an asteroid field or uninhabited planet at one time, such as planet/asteroid field size x2, for example.

Or similar for mining facilities, no more than 10 of each type of resource gathering facility on a huge/ size 5 planet.
Or perhaps planet size x3 for the max in resource gathereing/creating facilities in general, such as having 3 mines, 3 farms, 3 refineries, 3 monoliths and 3 solar collectors, or any other combination of to 15 total, on a size 5 planet.

I would love to see a patch that deals with the imbalance of fighter weapons beng overkill powerful for their size.

Sys_Get_Space_Object_Facility_Space_Remaining()
Sys_Get_Space_Object_Facility_Total_Space()

Its not really necessary though, since a good ordering of facilities to build can trivially avoid placing facilities you don't want on small planets; just put 6 regular facilities first, then the specialized stuff can't be built there.

Get_Planet_Ability_Facility_Count()
Get_Planet_Specific_Facility_Count()
+ system versions
+ component versions for ships

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You are certainly correct about that not being an optimal use of space but my designs tend towards being more general so I'm ready for anything instead of having to build and move (or waiting around for) a specialized ship. Its all a trade off (and a matter of taste).

1.70:
#29: once per unit? or one unit launch per turn?

1.68:
#1: does this mean the population max is graded on a curve based on what races live there? What about the number of facilities?
#15: about time!

1.67:
#16: YAY!

#29 - I'm pretty sure it means each individual unit is limited to one launch per turn. I think there's also an indicator in the launch window for units that can/can't be launched.

#1 - It means that if you make a facility with the "Planet Maximum Population" ability, it'll increase the population capacity of the planet. Before this, only the maximum value for this effect (usually the planet's capacity) was working.

-----
A project a day keeps the deadline away.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go to this Wiki if interested. No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE

Yeah we can spend our modding time figuring out how to do it right and just give Aaron the finished version.

If only.

If only? If only what? aaron likes getting feedback from his fans.

#8: YAY!

Then why not incorporate the best from the user community?

4 sounds good. Up to 1.71 already?

Please turn on warp point size limits Aaron please?

"Genius is Simplicity" chris connors
"To win without fighting is best" sun tsu
those who think they know everything are annoying to those of us who do

I find warp point size limits to be a needless complication in a regular game.

Does somebody know whether there is a work on the Alliance feature? As for now it is so heavily bugged it is almost entirely useless. I tried it in a BM simultaneous game.

Needless complication? I don't see why. as is you can send anything though any warp point. Changing that will make for odd tactical scenarios, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

The second is exactly what I am trying to avoid. I don't want to limit something to the same amount for all planets.
It seems stupid that a tiny domed planet has the same restrictions as, oh say, a Sphere World.

The first might work, but seems a bit complicated when it comes to dealing with domed planets, and unbalance things a little when dealing with Ring/Sphere Worlds.

Basically, as I see it, each planet has a certain amount of 'realestate' based on its size, and that only a certain amount of that realestate is viable/practical for certain uses.
That should be the factor as I see it, not some 'one restriction fits all' limit like '1 max period', and not if domes are present or not. If they can make a space ship that can survive the harshness of space, nebulas and flying near black holes, then building an air tight, radiation proof, micro-metoerite resistant structure, with acid rain proof paint, should not be a problem, and mean domes should not effect some of the limits.

You could modify the max (population/structures/units)to be a function of planet size modified by planet quality.

Even a deadly planet could have a very small area that was livable. This would encourage the building of climate control facilities to improve the quality (and hence usefulness) of the planet.

Fully agreed! The game needs more of these features or at least the choice for modders to invoke them at will.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go to this Wiki if interested. No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE

I did mean incorporating the best right into stock. Have people like Capt Kwok and unnamed, who have a proven track record, work on a better stock AI for example.

Trying to keep track of all that would be a needless complication in stock but I can almost see it as a strategic consideration in a mod or scenario.

Better to let each user chooose which mods to add to a simple base, than to force him to mod out changes to stock that he doesn't consider to be improvements.

-----
"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

Hopefully Aaron will want to add these functions just requested via email:

Get_Planet_Ability_Percentage_Of_Facility_Space(Ability_Type_Name: string, Sub_Ability_Type: string ): long
-- Returns the percentage of total facility space used on a planet by facilities with the specified ability.

Get_Queue_Ability_Percentage_Of_Facility_Space(Ability_Type_Name: string, Sub_Ability_Type: string ): long
-- Returns the percentage of total facility space used in a planet's queue by facilities with the specified ability.

Get_Planet_Facility_Space(): long
-- Returns total facility space of the planet.

Get_Planet_Remaining_Facility_Space(): long
-- Returns remaining facility space of the planet.

Get_Planet_Population_Space(): long
-- Returns total population space of the planet.

Get_Planet_Remaining_Population_Space(): long
-- Returns remaining population space of the planet.

Get_Planet_Cargo_Space(): long
-- Returns total cargo space of the planet.

Get_Planet_Remaining_Cargo_Space(): long
-- Returns remaining cargo space of the planet.

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There is a great deal of consensus that the stock AI is not "the best". Shall we start a poll?

Well, it's not a real problem for us, who can just go on the web and find all the mods we like. I feel sorry for the people who bought the game and never thought much about updates or mods, though. Even fully patched stock is not anywhere near an acceptable level of quality, in my opinion. And frankly I'm not sure if I want Aaron to waste time on improving it, since BM has pretty much done that already. Better Aaron spend his time on the code and rather start including perhaps BM in the official patches. That'd at least help Steam users and the people that keep up with the official patches but who don't go looking for mods( probably the majority ). Sad if the stock data files should continue to drag the game down like it does now.

Yes, for beginners mods are an advanced topic. Stock is the first impression everyone gets. So what we are saying with stock right now is that we know we stink and we don't care. What else would someone think once they realize it could easily have been better? I don't want to see anyone get the wrong impression of the game or anyone involved with it.

Is it possible that the type of people who wouldn't think to look online for patches and mods, in this day and age, probably wouldn't even REALIZE that stock stinks so bad? I mean, think of SE5 mods as wines... not to be insulting or anything, but only a connoisseur could tell the good ones from the bad ones; most people would say "huh, it's a 4X game, I like it" or "bleh, I hate turn based strategy"!

Just a hypothesis, of course...

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Without the mods people wouldn't know how bad the stock was? I would differ with that but then I have more experiences with other 4x games to compare it with.

Yeah, they probably wouldn't complain about the 4x aspect of the game or even the balance in the stock data files. However, they'd most definitely notice, probably in their first game, how horribly unchallenging the AI, and thus the game in general, is. And a very easy game quickly becomes a very boring game.

Point being that when all it takes to make the game alot better for the casual player is to add a few MBs to the official patches, then I don't see why not.

Well I have been away from SEV for a wile, and have a quick question, can you now use Get_Vehicle_Size_Tonnage in components? Did not see that in any change log. . Been begging Aaron for a while now. .

Thanks

Sadly, no. Beg some more.

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First, I don't think that stock it's so terrible game... it lets you start gaming without being overhauled by enemy, like others game. It's like... a tutorial?

Second, the stock AI would be the point from every modder will start with their mod. In BM or Unnamed you haven't all this little files in the utilities folder to mod... using stock AI as starting point to mod let a new modder to learn how to improve the game.

Third, almost every one after playing SEV for a while think about how modding this feature or this another one, and so on... but if a new modder must face the challenge of modding BM or Unnamed, that are simply great, they can be frightened...

So, finally, I think that Aaron must continue to improve AI... not to be the perfect AI, but to cover all things.

Patch 1.71 has been released! And it is savecompatible!!!

Is it going to be savegame compatible with SEV 1.66 and BM 1.14 on PBW?

Providing admins are kind enough to allow it I think it should work.

There were some changes to the script functions so it's not compatible with Balance Mod 1.14, but Kwok said over in the SE.net forums that he'd release a script update to make 1.14 compatible.

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

"Version 1.70:
1. Fixed - Sometimes ships could move through a sector with enemy ships and not start combat.
2. Fixed - Help text describing a construction queue's emergency build rate.
3. Changed - Ships in combat with the same target will spread out around the target a bit more.
4. Changed - "Only Engines", "Only Weapons", and "Only Shield Generators" damage types now
penetrate both shields and armor."

#4... dear lord
Looks like there's only one weapon available to the winners in BM again, unless Kwok swoops in and fixes it.