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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no offense to anyone )

Submitted by Juju on Sat, 2008-03-08 17:06. Space Empires V General

Goddamn ..

( be warned, thread could contain coarse language and be offensive )

I thought I had enough with all the Space Empires bashing I read since I first logged in here.
I always played a nice game of Sim Empire, my goals are simple, run an empire build big ships and sphere worlds .. bash an A.I. or two on the way.

I don't play to win, I don't play to optimize, for me Space Empires is a Zen like feeling.

I don't care for the long turn rates .. It's great, I read while I wait, watch my favorite TV Shows or I learn.
Turn based is great to stand up in between to care for my daughter, follow the crazy ideas of my wife or do something completely different.

Everytime I read a good scifi book or watch a movie or show the urge to build a space empire overcomes me, try a new mod, do something different.

I like this game for the simple pasttime it is.

But sometimes I get annoyed.
Soon I am a Bachelor of Computer Science, maybe I want to be a Master.
I know some people who work in the Gaming Industry and did a few things myself.
I know about Software Development in general and golden Design rules.

Now I have played a view games of space empires most of them I broke up before any real battle happened ( I raped the AI by treatys and was superior in all ways .. so any fight would have been boring )
but now I played a nice game of balance mod ( also see thread "Using Fleets and Strategies" ) and I cant hold myself ..

THE GODDAMN INTERFACE SUCKS .. Big Time .. like a pornstar .. like like .. the gravity well of a neutron star and a black hole combined .. with all the suckiness of aol, ie, telemarketers, talk shows and politicians included

What did Malfador think by designing this ? .. The lead Designer, the betatesters .. everybody involved .. did they smoke crack laced with EAs latest game quality manifests and bullcrap ?
Did they play any Real Time Strategy game before ? Or any other game ?

A Game stands and falls with it interface .. how many of you played rogue-likes ?
or dwarf fortress ? the greatest dungeon crawls, the greates sim game ever ..
the graphik sucks, the interface sucks .. but there are great communities for both ( i really don't know why ) without graphics I can live .. I still play diablo II, starcraft and a lot of gameboy and super nintendo emulators .. oldschool graphics but the controls are great,
simple, easy to use ..

The Controls for the empire are quite usefull, I found many options I like, even if I have to click more than alot to really make use of them.

The Combat Controls are just not bearable .. and the sector view is nice, but lacks everything usefull, except placing units.

Most ships look the same, due to the use of the same hulltypes, or similiar enough, or to small do really seperate them. Thats would be no problem, if there where other ways to keep them apart.

But what really ticks me off is the lack of information, the lack of usefull commands, the lack of anything that resembles control.

Scrap the whole Real-Time battle interface and redesign it with care and some good rts-games in mind ..
I want to know how much fighters are left on my carriers ( surprisingly they are not listed as cargo in fight, but launch anyways every odd seconds )
I want to tell my carriers where my fighters should meet and build formations on their own,

I want to shout STOP .. ALL UNITS STAND STILL FOR GODS SAKE .. DON'T ADVANCE LIKE SOMETHING THATS ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN.

I would like pre battle placement

Steal from X-Com and Warcraft, from Homeworld and anything else.
New Ideas are so scarce in the gaming industrie so stop trying to reinvent the wheel and steal .. there is enough good stuff around thats just to good to pass ..

For gods sake .. hire somebody if you must who can slim down the interface without losing the depth .. at the moment its like a car with the controls of a plane.

Less buttons, less clicks, more control, and even the micromanagement addicts will notice the turns will go by faster with more accomplished ..

again .. no offense meant on anyone, just my pile of 2 cents
i had to get it off me.

ps. I want ingame formation editors .. at best with the actual fleet ( like the sector view .. )
Ship Tags like in Supreme Commander to present the different design types

again a big read button that cancels all fleet orders without breaking formation.
retreat in realistic form .. means scatter and reform at point X.

fighter wings .. the option to guard ships ( fighters and pds stay with bigger ships )

rally points in combat,

my only wish for SE:VI .. hands of the gameplay, the engine and all that.
No new features, components, supply system or what not ..

Just a working easy interface.

And I know what I wish for ..

Even an apprentice can perform a nearly impossible task.
The gift of the master is to make it look easy.

‹ Weapon Ranges? Can't enter cheat codes? ›
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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Juju on Sat, 2008-03-08 17:07.

Wow .. this thing got longer than I thought

Remember : Pillage first! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by pyroman on Sat, 2008-03-08 17:52.

LoL

I know the feelin sometime...as far as what on earth does this do feeling I had that for a LONG time...for some reason the information about a component is not on the component but its under the big Q mark icon...is it me or is that really stupid?

The only thing there in the "Q" area should be what is this type of attack mean, like in refrence to shield implosion where its not obvious, like 4x damage to shields means...4x damage to shields...The biggest offender is the cultural advancments you can research...in the research window its like ok so you do what...why dont you tell me what it does instead of having the information someplace els and make me find it

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Vince278 on Sat, 2008-03-08 19:15.

I agree with everything I've read so far...

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Mod Designer

Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Fyron on Sat, 2008-03-08 22:48.

Juju wrote:
What did Malfador think by designing this ? .. The lead Designer, the betatesters .. everybody involved .. did they smoke crack laced with EAs latest game quality manifests and bullcrap ? Did they play any Real Time Strategy game before ? Or any other game ?
Hey, don't blame us lowly testers; we told MM it sucked (in great detail), but were only partially successful getting changes made to the UI...


SpaceEmpires.net | Space Empires Wiki

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Qcontinuum on Sun, 2008-03-09 02:26.

In tactical combat you can stop all your ships: disable automove for all pieces. However in strategic combat we need some new orders options like "stay close to" ... (warp point, bases, planet).

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Juju on Sun, 2008-03-09 06:07.

I take it back Fyron ..

I looked over the text again and thought I included the line which was in my head and said :

only release if Fyron and Kwok have no major amends ..

In my little game programmers fantasy dreamworld betatesters have a important say in gameplay .. its not only their job to find bugs its also their job to tell if there are components in a game that need rework .. okay maybe thats more an alpha phase thing .. or even pre-alpha ..
but there should be people whose job this is ..

a friend of mine is working on a game right know from which he knows that it will suck.
The concept is good but there are so many details that got left out by decission that it can't get good, because the "real-feeling"* will die.

*"real-feeling" is defined by my as : its not real, but good enough, though it could be that way

I have to admit in the real world there are EA and other publishers ( i don't like EA, nothing personal .. ) that don't give a crap about the developers .. so why should they listen to a measly guy whose job is to play games .. ?

Did you know that optimising code is a no-go in modern software developing most of the time
because it ups the project cost and time and could later be sold as support and upgrade service ... ... ...

I will now go back to my dreamworld .. where there are still programmers and coders and not developers .. small teams with high ambition and no publishers with money in mind ..
and Duke Nukem Forever seeing daylight Smiling

one last thing :

THANKS AARON, I LOVE SPACE EMPIRES AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT WASTE SO MUCH POTENTIAL,
YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, DO WHAT I DREAM OF AND MADE A GREAT GAME IN ITS FIFTH ITERATION.
CARRY ON. I ONLY GET THAT HEATED WHEN I REALLY CARE.

Remember : Pillage! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Juju on Sun, 2008-03-09 06:13.

How do I do that ?

Disable Automove ? Can I do that in the Empire-Strats setting too ?

It would be a pain to do it everytime.

Is there a group highlight to ? Or Taskforce as in SE:IV ?

Remember : Pillage! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Qcontinuum on Sun, 2008-03-09 08:12.

Juju wrote:
How do I do that ?

Disable Automove ? Can I do that in the Empire-Strats setting too ?

It would be a pain to do it everytime.

Is there a group highlight to ? Or Taskforce as in SE:IV ?

Remember : Pillage! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

Unfortunately you must disable automove (under piece options) for each tactical combat again!
That's why I proposed the new strategy orders "stay close to...".

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Gusset on Sun, 2008-03-09 09:39.

First, my disclaimer: I only play simultaneous turn games, which means I also only play strategic combat.

"Stay close to" can be accomplished to a degree. Staying close to a ship is easily done using a task force with a strategy that does not break formation. For instance, if I have a dreadnaught that needs a few escorts, I set it up with a barricade formation with the DN as task force leader and 3-5 PD DDs as other core ships. Not perfect, and ship spacing is farther than I'd like with the default TF layout, but adequate. The disadvantage comes when you have a lot of large ships that need escorting, as lots of task forces result, with the accompanying management chaos.

For extra protection of a starbase or planet, though, it's not quite doable. The best I've come up with is an automatic retreat strategy set to "stay close to planet/base". They stay close to the planet, but on the OPPOSITE side of it from any attacking enemies, so they're usually out of range to provide a decent amount of supporting fire.

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Vince278 on Sun, 2008-03-09 19:48.

Fyron wrote:
Hey, don't blame us lowly testers; we told MM it sucked (in great detail), but were only partially successful getting changes made to the UI...

That's good to hear. I used to think that the end product was an indicator of the ability (or lack thereof) of the playtesters. You guys must have gotten awfully frustrated. Smiling

I tried volunteering back then but now perhaps touting my throughness and experience was the last thing I should've done. Laughing out loud

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by pyroman on Sun, 2008-03-09 22:00.

Yeah, I have been very frustrated with computer games at times and always say to myself man wouldnt it be cool if they did ____ or they seriously could have made this part cooler...well the problems always, and I do mean always leads to the man with the money...I mean Im sure if they had an almost unlimited budget AND people would be willing to shell out like 100+ bucks for the best space game ever made people would be happy...and the multiplayer system would work (one of the big things that piss me off, cant do a lan with out manually transferring files)

But as it is, this game didnt cost 50 or 60 bucks like what you spend for the latest block buster game so I guess you get what you pay for...but I mean like my complaint would be really easy to fix...and really, you should NEVER have a "Q" mark button, it means you screwed you making things hard to understand, all you have to do is merge the two...at its stage now its a little harder cause you would repeat yourself, but you know what I mean.

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Juju on Mon, 2008-03-10 03:40.

I got it now .. my fleet abides my wishes .. more or less Smiling

Now I only have to remember to mark that damn task force leader in some way Smiling

Remember : Pillage! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

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Unole's picture

Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Unole on Mon, 2008-03-10 07:57.

First off: The gravity well of a supermassive black hole is less than aol and ie as to suckiness. But otherwise that was a pretty good line.

In the fleet view where you can add ships to the fleet, the task forces leaders are well marked. IIRC, they are not so clearly defined in the other fleet views but you should be able to spot them. (at work and can't play.)

Unole
Directive 721: Cover your own a$$ first. Solo

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Re: I can't help myself ( just needed an ear for a rant, no off

Submitted by Juju on Mon, 2008-03-10 09:28.

You are of course right about ie and aol .. but I was adding up Smiling
so .. if this ever where about to happen the whole universe could collapse .. ..

And with marking the the fleet leader I meant renaming it, or taking a completely different ship type so I can select it in tactical
combat.

Remember : Pillage! then burn.
- Cpt. Kaff Tagon

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