Possible bugs in Devnullmod Version 1.66.0

Aah, Richard Stallman has invaded Space Empires! j/k

Seriously, though...

1. Perhaps this is an intentional tradeoff between quickly building facilities/units and being able to build ships as well, albeit slowly? The regular albeit massive 40MT spaceyard builds at full rate, so I suspect it is... Have to ask Devnullicus on that one...

2. Perhaps you are looking at the structure (hitpoints) of the facilities on the facility screen? I don't think that screen even displays tonnage (size)...

3. Maybe there are several entries for medium planets, with different capacities? GGmod does that... or maybe it has a special ability granting extra storage space... Adamant (for SE4) does that...

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

Gamma pulse torpedoes in balance mod skip shields and the description in this mod says shields and armor but the damage type is listed as normal. Is this a bug? Otherwise a great mod!

> 1. Building a small spaceyard actually seems to decrease the build rate as opposed to no spaceyard
> at all. Prior to building it, a research center can be built in 1 turn. After building it it takes
> 2 turns.

This is as designed. There is definitely a trade-off in using the small spaceyard facilities. They actually do decrease overall production (at least in the lower tech levels of space yards), but instead they allow you to build ships in less facility space.

> 2 The size of facilities listed under the facilities tab is incorrect for nearly all facilities
> that are not level 1. For example: The default size (level 1) of a small spaceyard is 10MT. A
> level 5 small spaceyard is 8MT. Opening the facilities tab for the planet shows the size of the
> level 5 small spaceyard on the planet as 14MT. Also a level 5 radioactive extraction facility is
> 12MT. The size shown on the facilities tab is 18MT. The level 5 spaceyard is also incorrectly
> displayed as 60MT (it should be 35MT). The problem is just in the value displayed. The correct
> value is being used to total the space available on the planet. I haven't checked all the upgraded
> facilities. This is a display issue only and gameplay doesn't seem to be affected.

Interesting - I'd never noticed that before. However, as you surmised, that does indeed seem to be a display-only issue and from what I can tell, is a relatively recent bug in SE 5 - the sizes used to display correctly!

> 3. One of the planets (a medium gas giant with a carbon dioxide atmosphere) has an unusual size of
> 82.5MT. It should be 75MT. My race in this game breaths methane. There are other medium sized
> carbon dioxide planets and they are all 75MT.

Do you have an orbital habitat built at that planet - those will increase the planet size somewhat. Also, if you have the "advanced storage" racial ability, I believe that increases facility space. Finally, I believe that SE 5, v 1.58 introduced a benefit to storage facilities that would increase facility space. I don't remember if I copied that ability to DevnullMod, but I might have (I'm not near a computer I can check this on right now though).

> Overall this is an excellent mod. I like the different sized facilities which gives you many
> options on even the tiny worlds. The tech tree changes are a welcome addition as well. Having
> armor and storage units types at 1KT to fill in the last bit of space on your design makes sence.
> I haven't progressed far enough to use all of the tech tree yet but the I like the changes I see.
>
> KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK!

Thank you! I'm glad to hear that someone else is enjoying the mod - I've definitely put a lot of thought into it If you're interested, by the way, I'm starting a new game with this mod on PBW - "SE V - DevnullMod 1.66" on http://sev.pbw.cc

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

Yes, this is a bug in the description. I changed Gamma Pulse Torpedoes to do normal damage intentionally (for balance reasons), but apparently forgot to update the descriptions. Thanks for letting me know!

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

Your mod is very enjoyable to play but I don't have the time to play pbw consistently.

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this pertains to strictly the Devnull mod or SEV itself but ..well, heres my problem. I created about 6 attack ships along with a supply freighter and made a fleet with them to attack a nearby hostile planet. Said planet had no defenses, it was just pop and facilities. My strategy for both the fleet and the individual ships (except for the supply freighter) was optimal range. I attacked with my fleet and went to strategic (I think) where you don't control it? Anyways, all my ships just crowded around the edge and basically were trying to run away.

I wasn't sure if this was because of the supply freighter which had a different strat (don't get hurt) so I took the freighter out of the fleet and moved it off the planet and tried to attack with the fleet again. Same thing. So, I went to Empire Options and changed the Retreat behavior for the Optimal Range strategy to "never". I changed all the little entries under Retreat Options for Optimal Range to "never" and tried again - same thing. They keep running away, even without the freighter and with the never retreat on.

What the heck is going on? I can't kill anything if it wants to retreat all the time and the game would end up being worthless if this keeps up.

Please, someone clue me in on whats going on.

ps- Fully patched SEV 1.66 + Devnull mod 1.66

Hmm, the only time I've seen that behavior (so far) is when your ships have no ordnance, no weapons, or no way to attack. Do your ships have ordnance, weapons, etc?

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

> 3. One of the planets (a medium gas giant with a carbon dioxide atmosphere) has an unusual size of
> 82.5MT. It should be 75MT. My race in this game breaths methane. There are other medium sized
> carbon dioxide planets and they are all 75MT.

Ah, I finally ran into this one myself while playing. Apparently, with Fyron's new Quadrant mod (I'm guessing), you can sometimes get planets that are special. In the abilities for the planet I found that had more space, it said that "Ideal construction conditions give this planet an additional 10% facility space". It seems like this is by design

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

Yes, all ships but the freighter had weapons and ordinance to fire the weapons with. Since then, I've gotten them to attack once but I don't know why they did because I've changed nothing else. Afterwards, on another planet, they went back to being cowards again.

I'm about to the end of my rope with this. I like the game, some neat things and eye candy but if you can't even attack well, SE:IV is alot better, it seems.

I may just try stock SE:V and see if the same thing happens, perhaps its just a bug with the mod? I dunno, but since nobody else seems to be having this problem ...well, who knows.

ps- they were using shard cannons + shard torps + flak cannons and have even extra ordinance bays. Optimal Range behavior with all retreat options to never. So, of course, they retreat.

This is just a wild guess, but check how the strategies are set versus unarmed targets. Maybe the time that they attacked, the planet had built a weapons platform for them to shoot at.

(This idea is based on the way SEIV did strategies. I still don't have SEV to check what has changed. I've ordered SEV, but haven't even gotten a notice that is has shipped.)

"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.

There are a few mistakes in some of the Temporal weapons and possiblly others leaving weapons with no Ordanance built into the weapon. So, if you don't have Ord storage on the ship it will not fire. Having a supply ship with Ord will not work as the ships them selves must have some form of Ord storage on board the ship. Check your weapons to see if they use Ord. If yes, refit them and add a Ord storage component.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

Join the PBW Devnull 1.66 game and help us test the game. We plan to start it on Saturday (USA).

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

yay! Thanks Capnq, that was exactly what it was - on the fire list for Optimal Range strat it had Buildings etc as "Don't Engage" but 100% damage which is impossible and exactly what the problem was. I changed that to Point Blank, lol, and I've been happily glassing planets ever since.

=D

Astorax - if that was a change you needed to make to one of the data files, can you send me more details so I can put the fix it in the next version?

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

Devnullicus, it wasn't in the data files itself, this was changed from the Empire Options screen for the various Strategies, namely the Optimal Range one. It had Buildings and such as "don't engage" but 100% damage so my ships were just basically running around doing nothing when they should have glassed the planet.

I just changed it to Point Blank for those 2 entries (in Empire Options) and its working like a charm now.

I researched the other two colony techs but no universal colony.
Am I missing something?

Nope, you found a bug. I made a typo in one of the requirements for the universal colony. It'll be fixed in the next version of the mod.

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

There is a small patch to make game 1.66.1

Follow my link below to get the patch.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

In the version of Devnullmod 1.66.0, I was testing the full tech, and apparently, for some reason, you could research some of the organic weapons without having the organic trait? Also, the size 5 organic armor seems to have trouble with the amount it actually regenerates... shouldn't it start out at a minimum of 1? and maybe go up to 4 or 5 or 6 or something?

Also, something odd is happening with fighters. at the first turn, I created some fighters and a carrier using a small freighter, and then went to attack with them in the space simulater, and they launched and just sat there. When I had an attack ship try and attack them, it went into its attack animation, but the shots were stationary and never hit... but when I tried the same thing with some higher tech in a full tech game, it worked fine. I dont know where the cutoff level of tech from "this working" to "this not working" is though... btw, I was running organic...

Make sure they have supplies and Ordnance on teh fighter designs. There was some typo's on a few things. Also, download the patch if you haven't done so yet. See my link below.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

I downloaded the patch (1.66.1) and installed it and it seems like the AI is asleep now? They don't build anything but a couple freighters and craploads of fighters. I've not seen any of them get above say 6 planets and most are around 2 planets. I have the option checked where you can see everyones score so I can keep tabs. In 1.66.0 I know atleast the Jraenar were giving me headaches, scarfing up planets in my own systems along with their systems and generally being a nuisance with frigs etc. Now, none of the AI seems to bother even building frigs just 1-2 freighters (with nothing in them) and bunches of fighters in orbit around the planets.

The 1.66.1 patch is just a revised components.txt with a very small but needed number of component fixes. If there is something going on, it wouldn't be from this patch I would think. More observation is needed.

Speaking of revised components.txt

for the 5 ton organic armor

Ability 2 Type := Component - Regeneration
Ability 2 Amount 1 Formula := ( 1+ trunc( ( [%Level%] - 1 ) * 0.25 ) )

So is there any way to get that last part of the equation to round up to a minimum of 1?

And the fighters did have supply and ordinance

I'll have to figure out exactly what is causing it...

also, you didnt change acid and plasma to be organic only... you shouldnt be able to get weapons that cost only organics without one of the special species techs...

Ok, the AI is still lethargic and won't build any ships but I found something else, I think. I can't seem to get to the point of building Sphere/Ring worlds. I maxxed out astrophyics, physics, planet utilization, construction, computers, stellar manipulation ..I can't think of anything else to try. I looked in the .txt for the tech to see what I was missing and, apparently, I need Planetary Engineering but I don't see it anywhere to learn it. It needs Planetary Engineering to get World Manipulation then World Engineering etc etc.

Is this broke or just not implemented or what?

Use Devull's Editor program to look at the Tech Tree to help find the dependencies.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

AI not worked ~____~

Romulus, I looked at the text file of the Techs, I know what the dependencies are and the one I need is not researchable as it doesn't show up ever. Its called Planetary Engineering, its not a Unique/Racial tech and has no tech dependecies. Its supposedly a theoretical science and takes 100000 pts per level.

Its just not there.

Name := Planetary Engineering
Group := Theoretical Science
Category := Theoretical Science
Description := The science of designing and manipulating a planetary habitat.
Picture Number := 8
Maximum Level := 1
Level Cost := 100000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 0

I think there area some bugs in the new strategies.txt file I used from Dvoongar's mod. I'll have to look into this or go back to the BM strategies file I think. Thanks for letting me know.

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

The regen already has a min of 1 -- the formula is 1 + some number. So it will go from 1 to 6 in the case of this armor type (max level of 21, which will add 5 to the initial 1)

What's not working about this?

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

The AI in this version of the mod is definitely borked - this is a known problem and one that I discussed at length in the history.txt file for the mod. I'm still using the AI from BM 1.11 and it hasn't been updated for the changes in devnullmod. That's the next thing I'm working on. This version of the mod is really only useful for a multiplayer game, honestly. AI changes will be coming soon

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

This does sound like a bug - I'll look into it and fix it in the next version of the mod. Thanks for letting me know about this!

--
Creator of Space Empires V Editor and DevnullMod
http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

Devnullicus, upon starting another game and retesting it seems its not Planetary Engineering thats the problem as that was indeed there at the beginning (yielding only Planet Utilization). The problem is Astrophysics 4 doesn't yield World Manipulation which you need to 6 along with higher levels of astrophysics to get Artificial Worlds. Theres no way to get a Sphere/Ring world without these 2 techs.

Cause in my game it doesn't actually start at one? its happening that it is starting at zero? And goes to 4 at highest tech in my game, not 6?

Let me double check it again...

Gavin, are you speaking of World Manipulation? If so, how did you get the tech in the first place? I maxxed out Astrophysics and never got it (already had the prereq of Planetary Engineering).

I changed the formula from

( 1+ trunc( ( [%Level%] - 1 ) * 0.25 ) )

to

1 + trunc( ( [%Level%] - 1 ) * 0.25 )

and it seems to work fine now.

Also... the fact that the traditional point defense cannons dont shoot down anything but seekers REALLY cripples the AI...

I see it got resolved, but someone please contact me if there are strat issues in the mod.

This particular issue isn't a surprise and is. Because the AI uses the same strats, I intentionally made some of them glassers and some non-glassers. So no surprise. Except that my memory tells me op-range was a glasser. But then my memory is notoriously bad...

My reasoning is that if I made them all glassers, the AI couldn't successfully invade; if I didn't make any glassers, players would catch on and not worry about properly defending planets. I assumed players could and would change strats to get the desired results; but I understand how this could be somewhat annoying.

For those too impatient to wait for the next devnull release, the 0.94 version of Dvoongar's Doctrines is available as of today:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-3301.html

Changing the files won't alter games in progress, and saved empires also retain the strats they have at the time they are saved. For multiplayer, you probably shouldn't bother - just get the game started and make any adjustments you need in the Empire menu.