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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discussion please

Submitted by LordDemon on Sun, 2007-12-16 11:05. Space Empires V General

How would people feel about some changes in the diplomacy. I have few ideas that I would like to run through and get some comments:

I) No research clause.

This is a bit of a wierd thing, I can see some reasons to incorporate it, but mostly it is too clumsy even if you wish to use it. This is why I would like added options for it. Now it forbids all research, but how about a research max level?

For example, you could suggest a treaty, where "both empires research max. 100 000 pts worth." or "Our empire researches max. 50 000 pts worth."
That would make it more usable, as currently the "no research" is mainly a humiliation clause ("W3 pwn j00 n00b, agree to this treaty that prevents you from doing research or we destroy you").
I don't think such cap reinforcement would be hard to make in code. More difficult would be the limit setting. Preferably it would have similar interface as resources in gifts/trade so player could set it to any level, instead of few pre-set options.

If you wish to get really fancy, there would also be a possibility to "relative levels", like "empires can only research as many points as the other", or "max. 1.5 times the research points of other empire."

This could be used as a way to limit development reasonably, to stop arms races etc.

II) No intelligence clause.

This is much like the no research, but it suffers from (IMO) a massive fault: I think that even at full ban, you should be allowed to use defensive intelligence. If you have treaty with one side, which prevents intel, all other races will have a field day in your empire. In general, the "no intel" could also use set limits, and perhaps also a "no intel against us clause". (Enforcing these would be more problematic though. ) After all, what do they care if you use intel against someone else? As of now, when you see the no intel clause, it pretty much nullifes any interest the treaty might have. If there are only two empires in the galaxy, it makes sense, but when there are parties outside the treaty, that is when it comes problematic.

III) No treaty with others.
This is also problematic. Because the treaties are so different, there can be a big difference with them. A simple 5% trade treaty is hardly the same as full tech sharing, allowing colonization in same systems and sharing sensor vision.
Again, this would benefit from more versatility. I have two possible ideas:
1) Easier: "Can not have treaty with specific empire", and "can not have treaty with empire in war with other side". Maybe the later could use a few turn "mercy time", so you can actually choose to end the "worse" threaty (one with no treaty clause) intead of the "better" treaty when your friends start to fight one another.

2) Harder: Each treaty suggestion would be ranked, say on scale 1-5. 1 is the most basic (trade, general non-agression,tribute), while 5 is the really tied together stuff (share all tech, share sensor sight of cloaked ships). Then simply "can't have treaty higher then lev. 2 with others." The levels of each clause should be visible when making treaty of course. This would allow more basic treaties (simple trade&non-aggression) to be in power with others.

IV) Clear comments.
This is partly for people who make empires, partly for basic game. Sometimes it is hard to figure out what the other empire want's if the message is not specific. Adding a clear version in the end might reduce the "feel" of diplomacy, but would make it easier to understand.
Something like this(for random religious empire):
"The great chariot in the sky has honored you with request to see him, and we are honored to provide your the access to his castle. [We declare war and plan to exterminate you all]"

This example might be a bit extreme, but should get the point across.

SO, any comments, feedback, etc.?

‹ Why I prefer Space Empries IV... System object tect size seems to be bigger in newest bersions of SE5 and BM12 ›
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MasterChiToes's picture

Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by MasterChiToes on Sun, 2007-12-16 13:14.

"Can't declare attack/war on empires that have treaties with signatory."

Respect borders, "remove ships from other empire's systems", do not enter other empire's systems"... etc.

and most of all

Empires or Empire A or Empire B cannot initiate treaty revisions!

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by LordDemon on Tue, 2007-12-18 06:40.

Is my writing hard to follow, or do I type too long posts? Or doesn't anyone have any comment on the suggestions?

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by zemnar on Tue, 2007-12-18 08:17.

On the research topic, though this would be even more complicated to code, you should be able to select what specific research should be limited. Like for instance, no further shield tech research, or limitation of sheild tech to level... This would be the most useful negotiation with respect to research limits imposed by diplomacy... Just think of the complex diplomacy that would come out of this! Surely would add a new level to the game that is currently missing...

Again, for intel, more granularity would be nice... for example, "no sabotage intel against... " "me, my allies, specific race, anyone..." Or even to a specific intel type, like "No sabotaging ships..."

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Psieye's picture

Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by Psieye on Tue, 2007-12-18 13:42.

LordDemon wrote:
Is my writing hard to follow, or do I type too long posts? Or doesn't anyone have any comment on the suggestions?
Actually, I think the situation is "we already discussed this relatively recently over in one of the GidMod threads". I can't remember exactly which thread, but do know that GidMod's AI pretty much outright refuses any treaty with any of those clauses in them.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go to this Wiki if interested. No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by Jozsf on Wed, 2007-12-19 18:45.

I would prefer a research and/or intel clause where the results are like trade agreements.

Each empire gets up to xx% of the smaller empire's research budget added to your own research (starting small, and growing to the limit)

I don't like that I might just give a free tech advance to another empire (especially in theoretical sciences). Especially, if they might have nothing to offer me. Since human players usually research faster then the AI, the AI can clean up on 'older' tech from the human, while the human player receives almost nothing from the AI.

This could be applied to Intel also. Reports from your ally about what other empires are doing (possibly harmless reports) add vital clues to your Intel efforts to provide more Intel points.

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by Gothic Knight on Wed, 2007-12-19 23:06.

Would prefer point limits per turn to a total point limit. I.E. Can research/Int X number of points per given turn, and rest are lost...unless you want to violate/void the treaty. Smiling

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by LordDemon on Fri, 2008-01-04 02:09.

Gothic Knight wrote:
Would prefer point limits per turn to a total point limit. I.E. Can research/Int X number of points per given turn, and rest are lost...unless you want to violate/void the treaty. :)

I actually meant this, I just worded it poorly. x pts/turn of research. Would make research limitation much better.

Also, I though I'd make a question here: Is there a way to give up a claim to system? I think in SE IV it was possible, and I assume it can be done with SEV too, but do you do it through diplomacy or some other method? (I think in SEIV yo could click the map somewhere the claim the systems.

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Re: New diplomacy suggestions, can I get some opinions and discu

Submitted by kromaticorb on Fri, 2008-01-04 02:45.

how about give colony independence. i think that was possible in SE:III. that was fun, usually u can ally with them as soon as you do

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