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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Quick Questions

Submitted by unnamed on Thu, 2007-11-15 18:50. Space Empires V General

Hey Everyone,

A couple of quick questions:

1) Is there any benefit to having multiple mine layers/satellite layers/ satellite bays on a ship besides combat? Is there a limit on the number of units launched during a combat turn?

2) How much effect on the slow down of the game is due to the comp running through the code, and how much is it actually executing the commands. 50% - 50% ; 10% - 90%; 90% - 10% . Basically how much impact does it have from us modders improving the AI and such to slowing down the game. Is it worth my effort and time to make more efficient code, or is the slow down mostly from running movements, combats, and such.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

-Unnamed

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Cerberus's picture

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by Cerberus on Thu, 2007-11-15 23:02.

From what i remember, mutliple launch components only matters in Simultaneous. (and combat of course) i'll test it again but i'm pretty sure i remember carriers launching alot more fighters than my frieghters(with one fighter bay) per turn.

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Cerberus's picture

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by Cerberus on Fri, 2007-11-16 00:10.

k so the test isn't conclusive but i'm going to go back on what i said earlier.
it doesn't seem to matter how many launching components you have on a ship, outside of combat. This is with Stock 1.58 Unnamed AI, max level with everything.
My game crashes when i try and launch 200fighters per ship(3 ships) in a system.
The single launch bay on my freighter and the multiply launch bays on carrier both launch 100 fighters per turn. so maybe at huge numbers but i don't think that's going to be an issue.

Will upgrade to 1.62 and see if launching units is fixed Sticking out tongue

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Psieye's picture

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by Psieye on Fri, 2007-11-16 10:31.

I recall Kwok mentioning that a huge bottleneck in turn processing is the Movement Phase - moving all those ships around. More efficient approaches have been suggested.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Mod Designer

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by unnamed on Fri, 2007-11-16 12:03.

Thanks Cerberus,

I thought I remembered that it only took one layer to launch all the units (though I dont think this was what was originally intended). If so I can teach the AI to make a universal unit freighter and launcher with greater cargo space and able to launch mines, satellites, and fighters (instead of a specific mine layer, satellite layer, or fighter mover ships).

Thanks Psieye,

That sounds correct. I had noticed that running one turn with detailed debug scripts generated a gig of text files to go thru, so wasnt sure (later stage game with almost a thousand ships, and thousands of units).

-Unnamed

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Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by jdunson on Fri, 2007-11-16 14:38.

This would be a real improvement in the viability of smaller AI races (either single-system minor races, or "full" AIs that haven't expanded much for whatever reason), but it requires non-trivial coding.

By default, each race builds a separate ship for each role (mine layer, satellite layer, drone launcher, carrier, freighter, etc.) and the AI generates tasks for each role and sends the ships of the appropriate type. Each ship can simply have orders to collect all of its type of unit (mines, etc.) that are available, and then head to someplace where they need to be deployed.

A far more efficient setup for a small empire would be to have one utility design with a single launcher of each type and the rest cargo bays. (For a fighter-centric race, dedicated carriers might still be needed for combat.) Writing the AI scripts to properly balance the relative needs of various tasks in peacetime and in war, and to load an appropriate mixture of units and cargo, is not simple.

Even for a human player, trying to decide, say, how many fighters to load onto a ship tasked with laying recon sats in uncontrolled space is tricky. If you don't meet any opposition, every sat's worth of fighters loaded is a reduction in the ship's ability to perform its primary mission efficiently. If you meet heavy opposition, a few fighters aren't going to save the day. Ideally, you want just enough to have a decent chance of taking down a single ship of whatever nearby races are using for exploration themselves, which if you haven't met them yet is a very open question.

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Mod Designer

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by unnamed on Fri, 2007-11-16 15:06.

Hey jdunson,

I was mostly thinking of using the all purpose ship (single layer of each type, plus cargo holds), for moving interior system defenses to exterior systems. So mines, satellites and such that are guarding warppoints between colonized systems could be moved to border systems with warppoints to enemies. Right now once they are launched they stay for all eternity. I was scripting this anyways, so I was just thinking about making an all around unit transporter as you described to do it.

However, your idea does bring back to mind the old plan of recon satellites and exploring. I'll have to think about that some more.

-Unnamed

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Cerberus's picture

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by Cerberus on Fri, 2007-11-16 15:16.

The all purpose freighter is how i outfit mine. with 1 luancher for all unit types and the rest cargo, it can carry alot of crap around my systems. dispensing it where needed.
Unnamed, if oyu need any help whatsoever with your mod, testing, debugging and such i'd love to help. I'd really like to get into AI scripting but i'm not really sure where to start or even what i want it to do. Any little projects you have would be great Laughing out loud

As for turn processing. as mentioned above, Kwok stated that majority of the turn is from movement. the computer checks what's around it after every hex that it moves. So with 50 ships moving 17 hexes that's alot of checking Sticking out tongue

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Psieye's picture

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by Psieye on Sat, 2007-11-17 08:43.

Well if those ships are stacked, then they do the calculation at the same time if they're moving in the same direction. But still, Kwok's suggested a dual mode CPU check - a separate 'globally aware' CPU that can finish the obstacle check in one swoop, then if there are unexpected obstacles, let the AI decide just as it arrives there mid-turn.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Mod Designer

Re: Quick Questions

Submitted by unnamed on Sun, 2007-11-18 11:40.

Hey Psieye,

Thanks for the info, so fleets are better than lots of individual ships. I'm trying to move in this direction already. (I also got rid of alot of the patrolling ships from IRM and moved to warppoint defense = lot less moving ships). Glad to hear there is talk of improving further.

Cerberus,

I've decided to create the all purpose freighter and teach the AI to use it. Thats the last addition for this patch along with testing and fixing the code I've already written. (fleets and attack scripts keep giving me problems, but I'm making progress).

I would love help with the mod, in any form you would like to contribute. I would say start where ever interests you. If nothing comes to mind, I think politics could certainly use work. Alliances have been fixed some, so they may be fun to script now (I think Kwok is or has done some work on these, so you could check his scripts for help or ideas). Stellar Manipulation is now possible for the AI so all those scripts could be created. You could just play the game some and see what the AI does poorly and try and improve that (thats how I started with construction scripts back in the day). Corellon is already working on a demand system for the construction scripts so I'll add that to a couple races. Another thing I think everybody would enjoy is making different races more unique. So maybe take a race and make it your own. Maybe they hate certain races, and like others. Maybe they prefer drones and dont use fighters; etc. There is a lot of possibilities. You can always just play my mod and suggest improvements or spot bugs. (If you wanted to test my new scripts before they are released, I may be able to do beta releases occassionally for testing). Any or all help is appreciated. Thanks

-Unnamed

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