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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit for different planets?

Submitted by Alpedar on Fri, 2007-11-09 07:19. Space Empires V General

Having ringworld/sphereworld is nice, but what it gives me? LOT of facility space, so i can fill it with research/intel/monolith.
More research is always good. Wrong. If i have sphereworld, i have so good research anyway, that i'm nearing to have everything researched.

So i can use lot of intel or lot of monoliths. But what they are good for, if i cannot spend resources they give me?

It seams weird not being able to build more SYs on ring/sphere world (i can have eg. 10 planetery SYs in one system on 10 planets, but in system with sphereworld (which should be imo "supersystem" compared to normal planet systems) i have only one.

One workaround is use lot of bases with SY (and i moded SY component to 4 per vehicle, so i don't have to wait ages).

So my questin 1 is:
How to make number of allowed SYs (facilities in general) to be function of planet size.

question 2:
How to make it depend on Domed/Not domed status

question 3:
Is there some balance/game quality reason why not to do it? (Except that current AI would not use it)

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ekolis's picture
Mod Designer

Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by ekolis on Fri, 2007-11-09 11:28.

I'm pretty sure there's a function called Get_Planet_Size() which returns a number from 1 to 5 depending on the planet's size (from Tiny to Huge) - it's used in the Formulas.txt file to define planet gravity, among other things. I'm not sure if it will work in Facilities.txt as you want, or what exactly it will return for a ringworld or sphereworld (though I imagine it would either return 6 for ringworlds and 7 for sphereworlds, since they're entries 6 and 7 in the PlanetSizes.txt file, or just return 5 for both because they're stellar-size Huge).

There's also a function called Is_Planet_Domed() which returns true if the planet is domed and false if it's not.

So, assuming everything works as expected, you might want a requirement like this:

Get_Planet_Specific_Facility_Count <= iif(Is_Planet_Domed(), 1, 2) * iif(Get_Planet_Size() = 7, 20, iif(Get_Planet_Size() = 6, 10, Get_Planet_Size()))

That would let you build the following on domed planets:
* 1 SY on tiny
* 2 SYs on small
* 3 SYs on medium
* 4 SYs on large
* 5 SYs on huge
* 10 SYs on ringworlds
* 20 SYs on sphereworlds
And twice as many on undomed planets.

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious Sticking out tongue

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Alpedar on Fri, 2007-11-09 11:48.

Thanks will try. (Although these are not THE numbers i want, but its good example).

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Mod Designer

Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Gideon on Fri, 2007-11-09 12:06.

If you change the Space Yard structure to allow multiple on a planet, then all you have to do is balance the size of the structure. The inherant structure capacity of the planet itself determines how many you can add, and how many would be a good idea (since adding the most possible might not be the best idea). Factor in a better bonus from population numbers, and you get a system that greatly favors large un-domed planets.

Rather than forcing a limit, this method produces an organic system with the same results.

"Only by being constantly at war with evil in all things, including yourself, can you truely know peace."
Download my mod here: GidMod

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Alpedar on Fri, 2007-11-09 14:23.

It does not know get_planet_size() Sad

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by rditto48801 on Fri, 2007-11-09 14:32.

Edit:
It doesn't?
Bummer...

I was hoping it might have worked.

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Mod Designer

Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by pkoko on Fri, 2007-11-09 15:18.

Alpedar wrote:
Having ringworld/sphereworld is nice, but what it gives me? LOT of facility space, so i can fill it with research/intel/monolith. More research is always good. Wrong. If i have sphereworld, i have so good research anyway, that i'm nearing to have everything researched.

So i can use lot of intel or lot of monoliths. But what they are good for, if i cannot spend resources they give me?

It seams weird not being able to build more SYs on ring/sphere world (i can have eg. 10 planetery SYs in one system on 10 planets, but in system with sphereworld (which should be imo "supersystem" compared to normal planet systems) i have only one.

One workaround is use lot of bases with SY (and i moded SY component to 4 per vehicle, so i don't have to wait ages).

So my questin 1 is:
How to make number of allowed SYs (facilities in general) to be function of planet size.

question 2:
How to make it depend on Domed/Not domed status

question 3:
Is there some balance/game quality reason why not to do it? (Except that current AI would not use it)

I agree 100% about lack of usefulness of ring/sphere worlds. I personally think these huge mega structures should have no limits on what to build on them. I would also increase the cost to build them resources wise. They need to really drain your economy that building one; will place you in red for a while. They should also be massive starship building centers. They should be a manufacturing capital of your empire. They should be the first SYs to build massive expensive Loaded Carriers, Dreadknots, and stellar manipulation ships.

The problem is really worse in the balance mod. My #1 problem with the balance mod is that I am unable to spend all the resources I gather no matter what I build. The build rates are just too low. Even upgrading SYs to the max only doubles their production capacity. Real empires have to pay attention to their budget and are always resource limited, BUT in balance mod Empires are building capacity limited. Add all these factors together and tell me; why should anyone build these planets. Better yet, from a production stand point; it is better to have many small planets than 2-3 big ones. That goes IMHO against all common logic on industrial practice. How do players build big fleets in BM?

Having one of these planets on your side, should be a game changing event. They instanly shift the balance to the owner's side. They should allow you to immediately gain superiority in the battle field. They should be your enemy's # 1 target. They need to be feared & treated as star destroyer by the opposition. How can are they useful now; I humbly ask you??

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Psieye's picture

Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Psieye on Fri, 2007-11-09 16:13.

Well, the simple way of making sure Ring/Sphereworlds are Game Enders - change the population bonuses. BM has really low build-rate bonuses for population. It also lacks a penalty of having next to no population. Around v1.38 I was on IRM where if you had less than 200M people, your build rate SUCKED (something like 25% what your SY said it should be).

So, jack up the population bonus such that at Sphereworld numbers, you get 4000% build rate (for example). Gideon's suggestion is also valid.

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Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Alpedar on Fri, 2007-11-09 16:45.

You can of course spend via LOT of Space Yard components (on base/ship). (And for my personal playing, I allowed 4 per vehicle = double planet's build rate). But even if its solution for building fleet, its SLOW for single ships.

And about pop. bonuses.
How do you think their function should look like? Sublinear, linear, supralinear?

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Alpedar on Sun, 2007-11-11 09:34.

I made my own pop bonuses.
notation:
Pop (in M of course) = p
bonus (in multiplicative form (1 = nominal, 2 = double rate = +100%)) = mult
For SY I used function:
mult = sqrt(p/1000)
For production
mult = sqrt(sqrt(p/200))

That means SY reach nominal with 1000 pop, production with 200 pop, but does not rise so high

It puts much more ephasis on big/breathable planets + make pop distributing much more important.

(+ i double pop for sphereworld, becose its much more bigger than 2*ringworld (ring vs sphere)

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by MisterBenn on Mon, 2007-11-12 08:15.

I agree I preferred the IRM population modifiers over the Balance Mod ones (i.e. more punishing for very low populations, making population management and population racial traits more important) but I suspect Balance has them set the way they are to avoid punishing the AI players.

Regarding the value of Ring and Sphere worlds, instead of playing with pop modifiers and ship yard limits, how about adding some sort of "hub" facility, 100,000kt in size (so only ring worlds and up can fit one) with abilities to give such worlds their proper status? They could have excellent levels of resource production, space yard production, repair and resupply abilities, and cargo too. They'd rightly become a dominant force on your empire.

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by Alpedar on Mon, 2007-11-12 11:41.

Or just bigger versions of normal SY (so big they cannot fit into Huge planets).

(Imagine 26000kt SY (producing like 26 SYs) for ringworld and some realy BIG one for sphereworld so it cannot fit in ringworld.

But they would take ages to build. So they would be pwnage just after game ended.

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Re: Is it possible to mod game so there is different SY limit fo

Submitted by MisterBenn on Mon, 2007-11-12 11:59.

I think that's true of Sphereworld's themselves... you've normally won the game by the time you can build them.

Maybe there should be a victory condition for completing a grand facility on a sphereworld? If there were a way to notify all players that the sphereworld was built and the facility was a few turns from being complete. Perhaps that's better suited to a mod, and of course is pretty much stolen from other 4x games.

From a certain point of view, I like that some of the tech is out of reach for almost all games... you can be reassured that you won't run out of growing room.

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