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Home » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11 and beyond

Psieye's picture
Submitted by Psieye on Wed, 2007-10-24 13:47. SE:V MODs

Mainly these are questions to Captain Kwok. I've been absent for months and still don't have time to actually play v1.58 after waiting for the patch to finally come out. So I'm in no rush for BM 1.11 to come out, but I am curious whether the AI in it will be able to do some of the following:

1) In an "AI vs Humans" team game, will the AI understand that it must form top-level treaties with other AIs immediately, and offer nothing but Immediate, Unrelenting War on Human Players? It was said that BM 1.11 would incorporate Alliance code, so will all these team AIs form a big Alliance (or is this an irrelevant question?)?

2) Will some AI consider (in late-game presumably) going for Stealth tech and utilising it?

3) Have we found solutions for "the AI keeps sending single ships to this well-defended chokepoint - why doesn't it ever send a big fleet or swarm of drones instead?" situation?

4) If I give a custom, Suicidal bonus of "x60 construction speed, x60 resource/research generation" (with Intel switched off) to the AI through Settings.txt... Is the AI capable of placing many items on its build queues if they'll all be built in one turn? I recall in the early days of IRM this wasn't possible (it'd only ever build 1 ship per turn per queue no matter how fast they could be churned out) - as in, the 'purchase algorithms' had to be upgraded.

5) Following on from 4) above - if it can build massive quantities of ships in single turns with this Stupidly Suicidal AI bonus... Will it be able to organise them into large Fleets and send them towards meaningful targets, while keeping a strong defence force?

6) Does the AI know how to shuttle the correct breathers to correct atmospheres when it gets new immigrants/conquered citizens? Can it get rid of Domed Colonies if it has appropriate breathers and transport ships - both within reasonable reach?

----

For reference for others: the default "High AI Bonus" only gives something like x5 resource/research/intel and x4 construction.

‹ Next version of GidMod... Keeping weapons off a ship??? ›
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Captain Kwok's picture
Mod Designer

Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11

Submitted by Captain Kwok on Wed, 2007-10-24 14:06.

1. AIs in team mode form partnerships as soon as possible. They will not declare war on the human player right away, but will not make a treaty either. Depending on their personality, they will either quickly or slowly drift to a war state if no other causes are immediate. AI alliances will not be re-vamped until v1.12.

2. The AI is setup to use stealth armor and cloaking devices right now. However, the order to cloak or de-cloak does not work and requires a hard code fix.

3. The AI does place fleets and defences and at bordering warp points in various degrees of efficiency. There's no specific orders in place for Drones to attack through warp points - but some races will use Drones more frequently in other ways.

4. I've had it setup that way for a few versions in the past, but generally found the AI overspent or filled it's queues unevenly. There's ways around it, but probably not worth the effort at this time.

5. It depends on the circumstances. If a fleet is waiting for too many ships at once to join, then sometimes it's movement is hampered.

6. The AI has been able to optimize it's planets and breathable populations for quite some time. It uses the quick and dirty "eject non-breathers to space" technique when breathers are present.


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Psieye's picture

Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11

Submitted by Psieye on Wed, 2007-10-24 14:34.

Captain Kwok wrote:
2. The AI is setup to use stealth armor and cloaking devices right now. However, the order to cloak or de-cloak does not work and requires a hard code fix.
Ah, Stealth AI orders still don't work. Very well, it's not a glaring issue.

Quote:
3. The AI does place fleets and defences and at bordering warp points in various degrees of efficiency. There's no specific orders in place for Drones to attack through warp points - but some races will use Drones more frequently in other ways.
Ah, this means it does understand where the borders are and acts somewhat appropriately, depending on race. Have I got that right?

Quote:
4. I've had it setup that way for a few versions in the past, but generally found the AI overspent or filled it's queues unevenly. There's ways around it, but probably not worth the effort at this time.
Mmm very well. Could you describe what it's doing now then? Does it consider its economy when deciding what to 'purchase' for each queue? Or does it solely think about "what facilities/units does this planet need, can it spare time to build ships"? How does it decide how many Base Space Yards to build? Does it ever use Space Yard Ships if it had the technology and resources?

Uh... that might be a lengthy set of questions - feel free to cut down on details as is appropriate.

Quote:
5. It depends on the circumstances. If a fleet is waiting for too many ships at once to join, then sometimes it's movement is hampered.
*nods* I will trust the "Fleet numbers are being tweaked for 1.11" statement you made elsewhere then, to have suitably sized fleets be moving at us. Perhaps some fleets could be ordered to wait for joins longer than others. I'm not sure how complex it'd be to order ships with "Join Fleet X" to re-evaluate that order each turn.

Quote:
6. The AI has been able to optimize it's planets and breathable populations for quite some time. It uses the quick and dirty "eject non-breathers to space" technique when breathers are present.
Ahhh, well it works and I've no complaint ^^

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Captain Kwok's picture
Mod Designer

Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11 and beyond

Submitted by Captain Kwok on Wed, 2007-10-24 14:56.

There's no way to return which specific order a ship currently has (only the number of orders) so its fairly difficult to update ships on the fly. Currently, I'll have their orders cleared if they are low on supply. Most attack orders are set up in such a way so that they are executed in a turn's movement, which keeps a fleet or attack ship able to react to the map next turn.

The AI builds and uses both BSYs and SYSs. It typically builds a couple of BSYs early and a couple here and there afterwards. SYSs are built as soon as medium freighters are available and are capable of building defense bases on WPs to enemy space - although sometimes they mess up and build them elsewhere. Sticking out tongue

The AI sets a budget each turn to spend on construction. The usual priority is Facilities > Ships > Units. Ships are typically added to the fastest queues that are empty. Units end up at planets that generally have the lowest cargo space used. The AI is set to build resource facilities just to keep a bit ahead of their maintenance costs and so need a bit of a buffer to react when there resources reach a level that is considered low. With high construction usage, costs tend to rise faster than the AI can react to and they can sometimes bankrupt themselves in one of the resources.

Fleet numbers were down in v1.10 but units were up, which was opposite to v1.09. Sticking out tongue


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Psieye's picture

Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11 and beyond

Submitted by Psieye on Wed, 2007-10-24 15:15.

Captain Kwok wrote:
There's no way to return which specific order a ship currently has (only the number of orders) so its fairly difficult to update ships on the fly. Currently, I'll have their orders cleared if they are low on supply. Most attack orders are set up in such a way so that they are executed in a turn's movement, which keeps a fleet or attack ship able to react to the map next turn.
Ayaya... no way to return specific order(s) a ship has... I see, that could explain quite a lot. Very well, it's another thing to wait for in future patches. You're doing the best you can with what's available and it's proven that the AI can be made to give an aggressive challenge in previous patches anyway.

Quote:
The AI builds and uses both BSYs and SYSs. It typically builds a couple of BSYs early and a couple here and there afterwards. SYSs are built as soon as medium freighters are available and are capable of building defense bases on WPs to enemy space - although sometimes they mess up and build them elsewhere. :P
Ehehe~ Such slips can be cute Sticking out tongue

Quote:
The AI sets a budget each turn to spend on construction. The usual priority is Facilities > Ships > Units. Ships are typically added to the fastest queues that are empty. Units end up at planets that generally have the lowest cargo space used. The AI is set to build resource facilities just to keep a bit ahead of their maintenance costs and so need a bit of a buffer to react when there resources reach a level that is considered low. With high construction usage, costs tend to rise faster than the AI can react to and they can sometimes bankrupt themselves in one of the resources.
*nods* I see. If it reacts slowly to economic changes, then I just need to give it even more of an economic boost. That means I'll have to compensate my Suicidal Custom AI Bonus by giving them x90 resource generation instead of x60. Uh... I guess it'll eventually have ridiculous tech too pretty soon (as point generation is tied to both resource and research - as well as intel).

Yeah, I just want to have the experience of being THOROUGHLY TRASHED by the AI at some point, with Intel attacks disabled (the fastest way for a boosted AI to trash a Human).

Quote:
Fleet numbers were down in v1.10 but units were up, which was opposite to v1.09. Sticking out tongue
Ah... that's the detail I missed from all the posts of "where are the big AI fleets in 1.10?" I've been seeing ^^

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

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Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11 and beyond

Submitted by Sotho Tal Ker on Thu, 2007-10-25 10:23.

One big step would be the ability to get a the order of any space vehicle (Maybe just an Enum where you can iterate through).
For Scripting you would then have something like Vehicle_Has_Order(number) which you could than exploit to use.

I haven't begun looking at the formulas yet, but there surely is something like "Change_Vehicle_Order" - so in conjunction with the above that could make the AI react differently based on supplies, ordnance, damage or other factors. (If such a thing is implemented, of course Laughing out loud)

~~~~
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Re: AI Questions for the upcoming BM 1.11 and beyond

Submitted by msnevil on Thu, 2007-10-25 23:05.

Captain Kwok wrote:
Fleet numbers were down in v1.10 but units were up, which was opposite to v1.09. Sticking out tongue


Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Which is why some of us increased the Facilities to higher levels. Smiling

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