Pirate mod, ideas and thoughts.

Here is something I suggested in ekolis's thread about Pirates.

Assign income values to each ship a pirate has. A Pirate lives by his ship: running cargo, theft, boarding, etc. Their ship is their income. My idea is easy to implement and has a nice balancing factor as well.

Resource Income - Reverse engineer the Maintenance cost on each ship to be a Positive value instead of a Negative value. Each ship a Pirate builds will be Maintenance free and then GENERATE resources each turn. Many ships (Bases) equals larger income. Get a bunch of ships destroyed and your income drops. If you think about it a little it makes perfect sense. Oh, no income from Drones, Satellites, Troops, Fighters, etc. Only Ships and bases earn income (resources) while the rest you pay maint as usual.

Planets - Because SE5 requires a planet with colonies in order for Spacebased stuff to work. Pirates have access to ONE Facility only in their Tech tree. The Facilty will have a few functions built in to make the Pirate/Nomad life possible. The planet will still have population that grows, etc. Think of it like Tatooine from Star Wars. A planet that is a known Smuggler haven that operates outside the standard Empire boundaries. Tatooine has various infastructures available, but at a significant lower output (ie mining, farming, research, intel, etc).

Facility:
1. A small amount of resource gathering like a Monolith, but far less.
2. A small amount of research.
3. A small amount of ship building.
4. A small amount of Intel.
5. Inherrent planet cloaking, but no where near as good as a Ship. Just enough to make a ship need to be ONE hex (or right on it) away to see the planet or something of the sorts.

This would be just enough to get you going until the Space based stuff kicks in. When you find a new colonizable planet you send a Colonizer as usual. Once colonized you build your ONE facility on it and whalla you have a new Pirate base/outpost. If you don't build Star Bases in orbit around the planet you will stay hidden unless someone stumbles upon your base.

Maybe you start with a weak version of a cloaking device that you can add to your Ships and bases right from Turn One.

Also, your game start up files will need to be set with you starting with a planet and some Bases already built.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

Let me add.

I don't think you need a lot of 'Special' Pirate tech in the game. A Pirate uses what he scavenges, buys or trades for from the Black Market. This Tech is usually derrived from the available military hardware of the nearest country/empire. So, having a bunch of special tech is not really Pirate like (IMHO). Technically, most black market hardware is either older, installed on something not made for the item or simple improperily/jerry rigged installed, thus it functions at a REDUCED capacity.

Pirate ships are not 'Top-of-Line' ships, but more hodge-podge mixtures of various items. This is represented by not having access to a large Research point base making most of your ships be behind all others in Tech, but you don't have the maint cost concerns as your Pirate nature covers your maint cost.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

A pirate does not build ships. A pirate aquires them, either by buying them legally or otherwise. They might refit ships they capture, but building new ships seems like a no-no . . . what about giving them bonuses in the intel area that allows them to capture ships through intel, and greatly restricting access to shipbuilding facilities and components?

Maybe make a special component that has an extremely low build rate. This way a player could refit but it wouldn't be a good idea to try and build anything. You'd need to restrict the use of normal spaceyard components so Pirates couldn't use them.

I've found if you want to play Pirate though you don't really need to mod much. Just make a map and pick a nice starting system (ie: in Balance Mod an asteroid belt system with two moons of the same atmosphere). Handicap yourself with a rule of no research of anything you can acquire from the AI, no colonising outside your home system, no returning home for repairs/refits, and no building spaceyard ships. Then build an initial fleet of supply ships, capture ships, and repair ships ( I like 5/10/5 to start). When you need to refit just either raid a world with spaceyard bases or steal a colony ship and set up a temporary colony (Handicap yourself again with a limit to the usage of temp colonies - ie: only spaceyard built, time limit it can be established, must be abandoned after used, no constuction of ships). You really shouldn't have a resource problem. Your home system should be able to handle 20-30 ships easily and the asteroid belt can be mined if needed for more support.

Modding really only needs to be done if you intend for the AI to play a Pirate.

Great idea!!

I'm worried about the in game mechanics, though. At game start with no Neighbors.....you have no one to steal ships from and would not be able to get anywhere in the game.

Huuummmmmm.......Idea! You start the game with a Pirate base in EACH home system as the starting Empires!! So, with a hidden planet, cloaked base, cloaked ships you start the game plundering from everyone!! Imagine capturing colonizers or better yet blasting them from the stars on Turn one! It would create a new Dynamic in the game VASTLY slowing down the mass colonizing efforts usually done as you must see to safe travel first! I really like this idea!

Colony ships would need escorts, Intel hits from Turn 1, Sentry command becomes useful, etc.

A little rearranging the starting Empires wuld be needed, so everyone begins with Intel facilities. Maybe drop 2 Research yards and replace them with Intel. Would everyone need to get Intel 1 for Free or make that a player choice on Empire creation?

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

Yeah, the starting up would need some work. But realistically, pirates can only operate if there's something for them to raid. So until the rest of the quadrent is built up a little, there really shouldn't be any real pirate presence. But figuring out the best way to work that is the hard part.

A 'Pirate' only Intel ability seperate from the rest.

Steal Ship - It starts VERY, VERY low percentage wise with a high reveal rate to expose the 'Stealing' Empire. Its one thing to use Intel as an Empire with greater backing from all the Empires resources versus a Black Market type operation. This is why I see it as a low odds move in the early tech levels. As you research it up you can imagine it as building inside contacts, paying off the right people, learning the systems, etc.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

Now somebody needs to port the SEIV pirate shipset over to V! One of my favs.

I actually would rather just see them as a non-player race, same as I want monsters. You could make them have the ability to have 'asteroid bases' though, invisible and a small chance of detection success, and they of course use a lot of cloaked ships, and show up in the spacelanes, preying on colony ships and cargo ships.

All that is done before the naked stars is remembered

I lean towards not using that and I'm also thinking it may not be doable in the game mechanics.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

2. Maybe set the 'Cantina' at 25% a standard shipyard for repair. This place is off the 'Grid' and has some stuff available, but nothing like a true shipyard would.
3. May not be possible, since you can't colonize and Asteroid. (i think) But, otherwise the 'Cantina' will work very well.
4. May not be possible for asteroids, but planets will work well in asteroid field.
6. The programming is there. Use Organics as a template to create the special Tech.
7. I'm gonna pester Devnull to consider this in his mod.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

I had another one of those ideas.

We don't need to give the Pirates cloaking devices at game start. We do need one built into the 'Cantina' to hide planets inside an asteroid field, but no freebies on ships/bases.

Reason: The Asteroids fields will hide anything in orbit around the Pirate base automatically, so giving cloaking from turn one will not be needed. I think its a little to unbalancing to get cloaked ships from the start for free. A Pirate player can go ahead and buy it in their Empire creation, but no free cloaks (except planet).

A standard asteroid field has a cloak rating of 13-16 or some SUPER high number. It will do a VERY good job hiding your assets in their loving embrace. Since, we are dropping free ship/base cloaking a change to the 'Cantina' cloak will be needed as well. It needs to match the level of the asteroid field to give the feeling of a well hidden base. I think of it like the "Bad Lands" in Star Trek.

Enemies will see your ship entering and Exiting the 'Bad Lands' but will have a hard time tracking you down. Like in Star Trek, everyone knows where the Marquee are operating from, but are having a hard time stopping them. Slip out and raid tehn slip back into hiding.

Boarding - In order to fulfill their role as Pirates I do think the Pirates will need Boarding Parties from turn 1 for free. This will need to be assigned without giving the other options that come from reaching that Tech level. I would say a special Tech option that only becomes available with the Pirate racial trait.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

You might not be able to colonise asteroids as they appear in stock but I believe someone else worked on the idea (asteroid habitats) a while ago and got it working. I think you need to make a custom planet type that acts just like an asteroid field and add it to all the necessary areas to get it generated in systems.

Very good!!

Any ideas on the Who and Where to get the code?

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

Found the link to make the Asteroid Habitats:
http://spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/3821

I have the code hosted on my Filefront account linked below.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

From what i can tell the 'Asteroid Habs' (AH) doesn't count as a planet, so it will affect the Research and Intel generation. Reseach labs and Intel work on a ship so long as you orbit a planet you own. I guess you could call it the price you pay to have Hidden Bases in every starting homeworld system! They are now Forced to capture ships, thus acting all 'Piratey' in order to gain technolgy. That is a nice built in function to facilitate the players who choose Pirate to act like a Pirate! lol Funny, but true.

Shipset - I lean towards the Gallente for nothing more than the Race portrait seems more Pirate like.

Idea!!!!!

Make a custom race profile that uses one of each current ship design!! IE....the Pirates can build ships that appear as other race ships. That would be VERY realistic and add a nice flavor to the game.

Can you have for example 10 different Frigates to choose from or something like that? This way the Pirate can build ships that mirror ships of Empires he is interacting with in their home systems or appear as Neighbors to sow deceit, etc!

Colony Tech - I've thought about this more and the Pirate should only begin with 'AR' colony tech and no other. A Pirate has the option to steal a Colonizer and Analyze it, etc. If he colonizes a world it acts just like any other world, but must gain that tech from theft or research.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

A/H's are fun, but i would settle for a Tiny planet (1 Facilty) hidden inside a asteroid field. This would give the option to make Orbital bases for Research/Intel, etc. I tend to lean towards this option more. Hummmm.....I like the no research option for making Pirates be Pirates, but I like what the planet has to offer as well. Its a tough call on this one. Sugestions welcomed.

A/H - I think they should be Pirate only like Organic armor and Cystalline stuff, etc.

Appearing as other ships - I was just thinking to handle that initially with having all the shipsets available to the Pirate. I wonder if it can be coded that the Pirate can pull from any shipset in the game. This is just artwork/appearance issues and doesn't change the flags, etc. What you have in the other thread would be sweet, but we can consider this step one to getting it done.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

This does seem like a good idea.

I don't like the idea of having a 'base' in the home system of every other empire, it seems like it could be a bit unbalancing and unfair in some ways.

I do agree it would be neat if there could be stations that had a population value, not to mention components that mimic the ability of planetary facilities.

I can see how pirates would have the limited research/intel capability. Mainly from people who like the 'true democracy' of a pirate society, and thus leave behind lives of being oppressed and controlled to aid those who seem to be the embodiment of true freedom, and having only makeshift facilities to work with, along with those people having 'contacts' in other empires to get the occasional bit of leaked info.

Not giving pirates a colony is silly.
In assorted pirate games I've played, pirates had colonies of some sort, even if it was just a single small one with shopss (traders and smugglers), and a shipyard (even if a small one with limited capacity, so they can at least repair ships, and build smaller ones if needed)

Perhaps what is needed here is a special type of colony with different restrictions.
Their colony module/tech allows for only a limited number of colonies, with no restriction on planet type, with it taking a lot of research to get the tech higher levels.
It starts at lvl 1, and allows for no extra colonies at the start. Each level past that allows for an additional colony to be made, and also limits how big of a planet they can colonize. Lvl 2 allows for size 1-2 planets, lvl 3 allows for 1-3, lvl 4 allows for 1-4, and lvl 5 basically means they can colonize any planet, and unlocks a second very expensive tech, which would allow them to colonize any 'captured' Ring/Sphere Worlds.

Since a pirate group is likely to be made up of assorted races, another 'penalty' is that all their colonies are always domed, which helps to 'limit' the capability and population of pirate colonies, in addition to the limit of colonies they can have, so they need to do pirate stuff to get places.

Other stuff pirates need.
- Abilities to greatly reduce maintenance needed.
- Improve defense capacity against boarding since practically every person on a pirate ship will likely be armed and dangerous in some way.
- An 'improved' boarding component that also causes some minor damage that bypasses shields/armor, to reflect a bunch of rowdy pirates shooting up the interior of the boarded ship in the process of wiping out opposition, and to offset the

A specialized facility that is in effect getting a more efficient recycling facility sooner than normal, perhaps starting off at 50% efficiency, with a max of 95% efficiency (pirates can't afford to waste anything, unless it truely is waste).
Some sort of ability or component that allows their ships to slowly repair components (jury rigged repairs and such).
Possibly no (or limited) access to fighters and troops.

As for the thing of limiting what a pirate colony could have...
Pirates are not stupid. If they got access to a shipyard, they would likely be MORE than happy to start cranking out ships with stolen resources so they can do more looting and more pillaging in shorter amounts of time... and they would probably have a lot of 'volunteers' to do the brunt of the labor... E.g., people given the option to either work or be tossed out the nearest airlock (or into the nearest place that makes fertilizer and animal feed...)
Perhaps one thing to do is that they have to first 'steal' the tech for a space yard (or steal an entire colony), thus allowing them to them to build their own (possibly less efficient) space yards.
Similar for repair bays, if pirates could have some way to repair ships away from 'port', they would jump at the chance, since it means more time pirating and less time running back to port for repairs.

make pirate a government type with -200% construction rate and +100% repair or something, that way you can build a spaceyard for retrofits etc but can't build anything with it

Can you restrict a Facilty, so that it can be only placed on a Tiny planet (using the Balance Mod).

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

I don't see any Get_Planet_Size function, or even a Get_Facility_Space_Total function, so I don't think so... why would you want to limit a facility to tiny planets, anyway?

~~~
The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious

We are thinking about a cantina facility that is intended to be used on hidden bases in asteroid fields or the likes. Typically Tiny planets are found there and this was a work around.

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)