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Home » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Dvoongar on Thu, 2007-08-30 19:32. SE:V MODs

This is just the "strategies" optimized (I wish) and put into a text file so the AI can use them also.

You have to install it yourself, but it isn't hard. I see no gizmo for attaching files here, so we'll have to settle for a link to Spaceempires.net, ok?

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2565.html

Might as well scoll down a good ways. As of now the latest version is DD0.92, so you can skip 0.90. If you need installation instructions, they're in the first post of the thread. )You can also go with stock strats vs. DD if you want by using an empire saved under the stock strats. This should make the differences stand out a little more.)

I would welcome the opportunity to incorporate the doctrines as a feature into any true mods, if there's any interest. I'd be happy to try writing doctrines for special ship classes as well.

Comments are welcome as well. I hope I've done a good job, but I doubt it's perfect. So far nobody's said anything at all, and that's a bit disappointing. But I see a good number of people are using the doctrines - more than I ever expected.

I had originally planned to write different doctrines for the various AI empires to employ, but there's been no interest expressed and the game isn't yet patched to the point that this would be worth while.

I must apologize for not getting around more. I only discovered this section of the forum here today, or I would have posted sooner.

The doctrines are of course free for all to copy and redistribute.

Sales pitch time: They ain't half as dumb as the stock strats. If you get disgusted with stupid ship behavior, or if you feel compelled to issue tons of orders in tac combat, or if you're tired of beating the snot out of the AI's fleets due to your tactical wizardry/common sense... you need Dvoongar's Doctrines.

If you have Dvoongar's Doctrines and these problems still arise, please say something.

Edit: I forgot to explain DD0,92nlg. The 'nlg' version is intended for use with SEV 1.44. If you're playing 1.35 or earlier, you should use the regular 0.92. This is due to the removal of the independent setting which allowed ships to be instructed to 'retreat when all weapons gone'.

‹ Starting technology Space Yard and Temporal Space Yard ›
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Noumenon's picture

Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Noumenon on Thu, 2007-08-30 22:50.

I'm gonna download this when I get home... so this is a comment to mark the thread.

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Dvoongar on Fri, 2007-08-31 05:41.

Outstanding! My first sale in the new market.

I'm sure you'll be pleased. Come again any time, and thank you for shopping at Dvoongar's.

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by WaffleHouseNinja on Fri, 2007-08-31 11:04.

Cool, it sounds good and I'm gonna give it a go in a min, but do you know if it works with BM?

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by DauntlessDave on Fri, 2007-08-31 11:16.

That was my next question, relatedly, does BM modify the stock strategies as well? I like the idea eaither way though Dvoo, and I REALLY like the idea of different AI races using different strategies, it would start to differentiate the races more, as many posters complain that the stock AI races act too much alike.

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Noumenon's picture

Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Noumenon on Fri, 2007-08-31 15:57.

I read in Dvoongar's other thread that the stock AI ships -- all of them, even the troop transports -- use the "Optimal Range" strategy. So they can't be helped. (Just another sign that stock is hopeless.)

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Dvoongar on Fri, 2007-08-31 18:55.

Depending on the mod, you may or may not be able to use DD. The key is to look at the strats (the default AI strat file) and see what kinds of changes have been made. The names of the strats need to match the stock names.

BM works just fine, since the strat names are the same. If a mod's going to look for a strat that isn't there, this will cause a problem.

My pattern has been to play 1 BM game and 1 stock game, so much of DD has been developed and tested using BM. I'm intend to start using unnamed's mod for rather than plain stock because I'm sick to death of the dumb AI.

Anyhow, if you look at a mod and see different strat names, you may still be able to use DD if you first rename the strats to match the mod's names. It was either GG or IRM I looked at, and saw different namess. It was easy to see which strat was short, mid, long range, etc.

So far, no mod I've seen has made more than a very few changes to the strats. BM sets all ships to break formation immediately, and that's about it.

As for variety, my plan was to fully develop DD up to 1.00, and rename it "Wolf Doctrine". Then alter some of the behaviors and create 2 or 3 more doctrines. I have ideas for a "Snake" and a "Bear" doctrine, and I want one more, but I can't decide which critter to name it after.

The problem is that the strats aren't fully implemented, so I don't know if everything is appropriate. e.g. Is it good to retreat when facing a 50% stronger enemy in warp point defense, or would it be better to retreat after taking 25% losses?

I want a good solid base before I start playing around too much, y'see? And installation of multiple doctrines for the races would be a little more work as well. One would have to make & rename a file for each individual race in the game in that race's folder.

As with any minimod, it would be easier if modders incorporated this beforehand. I know those guys have their hands full, so I'm not holding my breath.

At this point I only have access to the number of times DD has been downloaded. This doesn't tell me (or the real modders) how well players like it, or if they're even using it. I don't know who's using it - maybe some modders are checking it out; maybe it's just noobs.

I expect in due time DD will establish a good reputation. This is a slow process because a game has to develop quite a bit before large battles take place. By the time this happens, players have forgotten stock AI. When they see ships doing what they should, well where's the surprise?

Final note for clarification: Stock, last I knew, used Optimum Range universally. BM does not, and some of the other mods do not. DD works best with mods that assign appropriate strats to the different types of ships. I have tried to keep Optimum range as viable as possible as a universal strat (failing, since one just can't make a universal strat).

Edit: one more thing. If more doctrines are developed to give to the AI empires, they will need to match up well with those empires. Some AI's don't use drones, and some don't use fighters. The "Snake" doctrines are planned to focus on fighter behavior, so assigning them to an empire that doesn't use fighters wouldn't work very well. The more one does with a minimod, the better it is to have it incorporated fully into a mod.

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Romulus68's picture
Mod Designer

Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Romulus68 on Wed, 2007-09-05 14:24.

I imagine you have this in mind:

Wolf = Group of ships supporting each other. near what i would call standard tactics.
Snake = Stealth and cloaking. Basic sneaky stuff
Bear = Full frontal head on with big ships
unknown = You need a swarm mindset with Carrier predominance.

What animal would make a good swarm name? Locust, Shark, Piranha, Hornet......

SE5 Files hosted on Filefront (Patches, Mods, Races, etc)

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Dvoongar on Thu, 2007-09-06 01:26.

Not exactly.

I can't control cloaking with the strats at all.

These are mostly just names.

I figure on having one strat that always holds formation, but I need to come up with something special to balance that out. I also have plan for a strat that would send fighters and drones after transports, ignoring other targets.

It's been a while, and I'd have to consult my notes because I don't remember it all. Oh yes! I was thinking of giving the stay-in-formation doctrines a twist: fighters that intercept enemy fighters as top priority. Some of it's coming back to me now...

Depending on the mod, these things may or may not be balanced. Thanks for showing interest - it's reviving my will to tinker!

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Re: DD 0.93 out

Submitted by Dvoongar on Sun, 2007-10-14 10:28.

DD 0.93 is available, and includes a bonus package with new and tighter formations.

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopicp-24135.html#24135

Even those who may have no interest in my strats, just might want a copy of those formations.

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Crian on Sun, 2007-10-14 13:26.

Does this work with BM 1.10? How do I install it? How extensive are the changes to the AI? Sorry for asking... is there a readme or something included with the package so that I don't have to be pesky and ask too many questions? Smiling

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Re: MicroMod: Dvoongar's Doctrines

Submitted by Dvoongar on Mon, 2007-10-15 00:11.

Yes, there's now a read-me.

The only issue with mods would be if the mod changes strat names, in which case the strats of DD would need to be changed to match what the mod looks for. IRM or GG did this - I forget which.

The formations and ship names files are compatible with everything.

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