What I miss from other 4X games |
Generally speaking I'm very pleased with the game play and features that SE5 offers. There's lots to do, and lots of modding capabilities. However, I often wish SE5 had elements from some of my other favorite 4X space games. The following list is not intended to be a slam on the current state of SE5 - just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." list.
1. Non-centralized resources
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, consider the SE5 resources. SE5's resources are centralized, meaning that your empire has X amount of minerals and you can spend them on any planet you like. Non-centralized resources are different: each planet or ship has X amount of resources, and if you want to spend them somewhere else then you must use a cargo ship to transport them.
Obviously the topic of centralized vs. non-centralized resources is a subject that can be debated both ways. There are big positives and negatives to both methods. Centralized resources are very convenient for the player, and it speeds up game play quite a bit. There are, however, several aspects of game play that I miss from games with non-centralized resources.
Cargo ships are more valuable in games with non-centralized resources. It becomes a major setback to lose a cargo ship since it may contain the resources you need to build your next fleet! This fact alone opens new opportunities for attacking your opponents, and allows for tactics such as blockades and raiding.
Personally, if I were designing my own 4X then I would use a mixture of centralized and non-centralized resources.
2. Radically different races
One of the most interesting aspects of another of my favorite 4X games, VGAP 4, is the radical diversity of game play between different races. In SE5 it feels like everyone is essentially playing the same race. Obviously differences in research will build up over time, yielding various strengths and weaknesses... but an empire can recover from any of its weaknesses by just redirecting its research efforts.
On the other hand, I like the quality of games like VGAP 4 in which every race starts out with radically different strengths and weaknesses which stick with you the whole game. For example, the Stormer Empire (VGAP 4) has weapons which almost never miss - but their shields and armor are almost non-existent. The Rebel Alliance (VGAP 4) has hyperspace-capable ships which can jump almost anywhere in the galaxy in one turn, but if you disable their hyperdrives or catch them in a gravity well then their ships are practically immobile. The Birdmen have incredible stealth, but they're also blind as a bat. Some races have great fighters but crappy ships, some the other way around, one is a group of pirates, etc... The Cyborg are particularly interesting since they must assimilate other races to grow.
Obviously such diverse tactics are nearly impossible to balance, but it's loads of fun anyway 
Hopefully SE5 will get some mods which add more extreme racial diversity.
I'm about out of time now. Maybe I'll tack on to this list later.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
I suppose if you wanted non-centralised resources, but didn't want the hassle of the micro management you could have a technology that was your 'transport' system throughout your empire. As you researched up the tree your transportation/cargo system would get more efficient and you would then have more resources at each colony.
I guess you would also have it dependant on distance from other colonies, and difficulty to access. For example: a colony that was on the other side of a black hole and nebula from the rest of you empire wouldn't get a great deal of transport to it.
Another idea is maybe have a slider or something about how much you're willing to pay for transport, which would come out of your empires coffers. If you are only paying peanuts you won't get much transport. But if you've got the resources to pay, you can get anything anywhere.
Just a few thoughts, I hope I'm still following your original idea RogerN
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
You could mod in such racial variety (2) fairly easily; a number of SE4 mods did it, and it is even more flexible and potent in SE5. Create one racial trait for each empire (or maybe, just one for each type of empire, so you don't have to rely on just stock races and can expand to custom ones easily), and have the presence of that trait affect whatever you like in the tech tree. You can also assign multiple effects to a trait, like both an organics bonus and a mineral penalty.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
Similar to your second point, remember how the races in Stars! each had a "comfort zone" in terms of temperature, radiation and (whatever the third thing was) ...a planet could be perfect for your species but hellish for your galactic neighbors, even if you breathed the same stuff.
It'd be nice to see that in Space Empires. "Planet conditions" needs to be relative, not absolute, at the very least.
A ship (/base/sat) component that terraforms (slowly) from orbit (or, for enemy worlds, terrorforms) would go along with this concept well.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
It'd be nice to see that in Space Empires. "Planet conditions" needs to be relative, not absolute, at the very least.
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Well, I think you already have those options available when starting a new game. Just think about the rock/ice/gas world and atmosphere selection in combination with the option that you can only colonize planets you can breathe on. Of course, that would probably imply that researching Atmospheric Modification Plant becomes pretty useless.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
No, SE's setup is absolutely nothing like Stars! or MOO3 in terms of habitability. Not even close.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
I remember long ago when Fyron and I came up with a great habitability scheme for SE:V when it was in early development. Essentially, you'd choose your race's atmosphere, gravity, and temperature preferences. The amount of a planet your race could utilize would be a factor how close your 3 values matched with the planet's values.
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Re: What I miss from other 4X games
Did MM not like the idea, or did it get dropped for lack of time, or...? I'd love to see that in Space Empires.
Real world example of what I mean: my wife and I both live on a rock planet, both breathe oxygen...but I'm comfortable in a temperature band that barely overlaps her temperature band. A planet in the lower end of my range would be considered barely habitable by her...possibly to include needing to be domed. Similarly, I'd definitely want to dome a colony in the higher end of her temperature range.
It's a big difference.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
Aaron seemed to like the idea, but never actually implemented it.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
Reach for the Stars used atmosphere/gravity/temperature as well. That was one of its best features.
"Good morning, Pooh Bear," said Eeyore gloomily. "If it /is/ a good morning," he said. "Which I doubt," said he.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
About non-centralized ressources:
You already have a non-centralized ressource you have to transport by cargo ships to get the best results from it: population.
The problem is that most of the mods don't really give it much importance.
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
Kwok, your "new" habitability scheme sounds EXACTLY like the one from Stars! 
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The power of the ancients is now yours to command. You are truly the Master... of the obvious
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
I hadn't played Stars so it was mostly coincidence. I think I still have Excel file which demonstrated how a planet would be domed or not. I'll look for it when I get home.
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Re: What I miss from other 4X games
There was actually supposed to be 5 factors, but Kwok kept silently dropping some. 
Re: What I miss from other 4X games
The problem with non-centralized resources is that it can lead to a lot of micromanagement. There are several ways it can work... In the venerable Stellar Conquest system (reapplied by MOO1, among others), all production is with local resources. Not much micromanamement there, but resources are abstracted almost to invisibility. Then you have a system like HOI (admittedly not a space 4X game, but still "grand strategy") - spending is centralized but you have to carry the resources to your capital. In HOI1 there was a lot of micromanaging convoys. In HOI2 they have allowed you to delegate that to the AI, and it works OK most of the time (but not always). Then there is the system where you have to carry resources from where produced to where consumed - IIRC that was how STARS! worked, and there was lots of micromanaging.
I can't say that radically different races thrills me all that much. Going back to Stellar Conquest, the only difference was the color of the counters (no differentiation in graphics, no backstory, races didn't even have names supplied by the game) - still had a blast playing it. So, I tend to see all that stuff as "chrome". Admittedly a matter of taste, though.