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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V After Action Reports

Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by marhawkman on Tue, 2007-07-17 12:03. Space Empires V After Action Reports

Having an empire with multiple races is incredibly problematic.

1:Colonizing planets will always give them at least one unit of your race.

2:While people who like the atmosphere will migrate TO a plant the ones that DON'T like the air will never migrate off it.

3:thus making it so you end up with an endless stream of Domed Colonies that need to have people removed from them.

Woul dit be possible to fix this in a future version?

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by dmcdonald on Wed, 2007-07-18 05:15.

The answer to this is quite simple. Create a cargo ship to ship the old population of world and onto another to remove the domed status. 'Collecting' as many races as you can is a great way to make the most out of every planet you have.

If a race is quite weak within my empire, i.e., only holds one or two planets, I ship 50 million of them to a space station over my homeworld for safe keeping, which I use for just this purpose. If that race ever gets wiped out, I have cryogenically frozen enough to start a couple worlds of again.

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Noumenon's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by Noumenon on Wed, 2007-07-18 06:09.

You can even Jettison (Ctrl+J) the population to save managing the transports. If you think that's cruel, definitely don't look to see what happens when you use Ctrl+K on them instead.

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by marhawkman on Wed, 2007-07-18 18:14.

I'd figured out how to do that.
It's just that doing it for 100+ worlds is a pain in the ---. I actually ended up putting members of every race I control into colony ships just so I don't need to worry about which race to put on a new planet. But even then it takes a long time.
----
Universe distortion

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Thu, 2007-07-19 04:50.

Usually when you colonise a planet, settlers that can breathe the atmosphere will arrive on the next turn. You simply have to "scrap" the race located before the supplies that your colony ship left. And you can know what planets are domed and with several races by using your colonies list.

1. => Set Automatic Colonization Population to 0 in Settings.txt. I personnaly find it more of an annoyance since it's easier to scrap population than to send a pop transport on the planet you forgot to bring population on.

Did you try using the "population minister"? (or what it's called...)

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by marhawkman on Thu, 2007-07-19 17:49.

Minister? There's a minister for this?

Anyways, I don't want to change the setting since the current version is sometimes useful. Like if you steal an enemy colony ship, you can then make a colony of their race without taking over one of their planets.
-----
Universe distortion

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Thu, 2007-07-19 19:01.

IIRC the 1M automatic population always comes from your native race. And if you capture a colony ship, it will probably be full of the foreign race anyway.

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by marhawkman on Thu, 2007-07-19 19:04.

BlueTemplar wrote:
IIRC the 1M automatic population always comes from your native race. And if you capture a colony ship, it will probably be full of the foreign race anyway.
It isn't in 1.0. I haven't menaged to steal any yet in 1.44 so I'm not sure about it there. And for some reason I've never managed to capture a colony ship that actually had people in it. Go figure.... --------- Universe distortion

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Thu, 2007-07-19 19:17.

Oh? Does the 1M population comes from the ship's crew?

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by marhawkman on Sat, 2007-07-21 10:53.

Yes. At least it's decided based on the Crew. I capture a colony ship and it still has it's original crew(at least if captured via Intel shenanigans or allegiance subvertors, not tested with boarding). Then when I colonize, I get 1m of that race instead of mine.

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by seeker on Mon, 2007-10-22 23:34.

I think having 100+ worlds is hard to manage, so I haven't done it beside my computer would rather die then let me, but once I wanted to make all the stars go boom in one turn, so I build 300+ ships to do the job(I maked mod). Two days later(thats where my weekend went) I only had 175 stars gone, then I quit made a new game. I now play with 10-20 stars.
but this doesn't help you
Seeker

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Mod Designer

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by Gideon on Thu, 2007-10-25 11:39.

The 1 M population comes from the Settings.txt file, under Automatic Colonization Population. If you set this to zero, you need to adjust the Script_AI_DesignCreation.txt to make sure that the AI designs Colony Ships with Cargo Bays. The population type is based on the crew type on board.

As for managing the population on your planets, I created a Minister for this. It goes through all your planets every round, and checks whether any domed planets have any population on them that can breathe the planet atmosphere (thusly making it un-domed). If it finds them, it scraps the population. I chose scrapping, because I set population to return a small ammount of organics when scrapped.

Organic Manipulation Tech is made of people!

"Only by being constantly at war with evil in all things, including yourself, can you truely know peace."
GidMod

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Mod Designer

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by Gideon on Thu, 2007-10-25 11:43.

BlueTemplar wrote:
Did you try using the "population minister"? (or what it's called...)

FYI, the stock "Ships - Population Transports" minister is terrible. Very hit and miss.

"Only by being constantly at war with evil in all things, including yourself, can you truely know peace."
GidMod

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inigma's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by inigma on Tue, 2007-11-06 16:18.

In a medium sized game I'm playing now, I've created an alliance called the United Federation, and by 2402.8 it has 12 member empires - myself and the rest all computer AI.

The United Federation is a Mutual Defense Pact with everything shared, except colonizing in claimed systems. It's as close to a united government of sovereign worlds as possible I suppose.

The last holdout is the 13th empire (its a game with no neutrals) which idiotically has declared war on the United Federation after my allies rejected their admission by 1 vote (I guess my allies didn't want to end the game so soon). I'm almost tempted hack in and play as that lone hold out.

What happens if by some miracle of diplomacy that the remaining empire is admitted? Does anyone know? The game has default victory conditions. Has anyone ever ended a 13 player medium sized galaxy game by 2403?

The funny thing is, by 2403.8 the big empire trouble-makers (all empires get only 1 vote thank God!) attempted to remove nearly the other half of the membership, with each member remaining by 1 vote. It's a shaky alliance, but I don't know how to have members improve their relationships with each other. I don't know how to convince them to admit that remaining 13th empire. Any suggestions?

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Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by battlespud on Mon, 2008-03-24 19:57.

umm how did you make an alliance and have ai join? Did you change to them and acccept a message or something cause ive never seen an alliance i didnt have to hack to make. And then no one ever does anything in it, no proposals and certain emps always vote yes and others always no!!!

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MondoMage's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by MondoMage on Mon, 2008-04-14 05:28.

I play the latest version of Balance Mod, and I've found that the opportunity to form actual alliances with the AI has an extremely narrow window in which it's possible, that is unless you go into the settings.txt file and change the Evil Empire settings (either turning it off or changing the percentages).

So it is possible, but not easy. Not sure how it is in other mods, or stock, however.

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inigma's picture

Re: Is making a Federation impossible?

Submitted by inigma on Wed, 2008-04-30 15:20.

No tweaks. Latest Game + Balance Mod.

I first make an alliance offer with the friendliest AI.

I set the initial terms of the Alliance treaty to give me the overriding vote in voting (like number of planets, 50% vote approval), and the biggest advantage to the AI to get him to accept (usually just trading or something like sharing maps) - which could be anything, and I don't care 'cause I'll just change the Alliance conditions once I'm in control!

In the next turn, when the Alliance is accepted and created, I use my new found power to force a change to the terms of the Alliance to my liking, and then "lock" the changes by setting alliance change proposals to 60% or 70%, as well as force invitations to other AIs, overriding the protests of the first AI. I know, it's sneaky and dictatorial, but hey, that's the point of the game, right?

Those poor AIs on the outside of the Alliance think they are accepting an Alliance with nicer terms (for the original terms is all they see), only then to realize in the next turn, that all my Alliance changes were "approved" (by me) which totally bypassed their input on the Alliance changes, as they are now in effect! Therefore, they have been forced into an Alliance where they are in a treaty they otherwise never would have accepted (since I never met an AI that left an Alliance once they were actually in it). (In fact, in one game, two warring factions joined the Alliance to share maps, in the same turn and there was immediate peace in the galaxy the next turn because by my new Alliance laws, they were forced to even be Mutually Defensive, although each side did its best to vote the other side out of the alliance thereafter, I still managed to craft the Alliance to my power-hoarding and forced everyone to play nice.)

Apparently unless an AI is super angry at you and/or xenophobic, they will always accept an alliance when offered, and certainly always (except xenophobes) accept invites from the Alliance itself when it is created. In the second turn, you now have all the AIs you want in your alliance, and the Alliance is totally to your liking. All this because you "invited" and approved them with your power vote when the Alliance was just you and just one AI. Granted the more AIs there are in an Alliance, the more dilluted your power is, and if you don't have friends, its harder to make changes to the Alliance. So invite AIs carefully, and abuse your power, or else you may wind up with AIs voting you out of your own alliance.

In some games it took me nearly a full 10 turns to get everyone in, by voting in and out AIs that were not cooperative with my agenda.

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