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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V FAQs

A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Tue, 2007-06-19 12:09. Space Empires V FAQs

Well, we had a Ramming 101 (needed a snappier name - 'A Crash Course in Ramming' would've been cool), so I thought I'd try and pitch in with my favorite area of research. I'll try here to share what I've learned about capturing ships. Maybe others have learned more/better techniques and they'll share their knowledge also.

The two most important things are to have a ship with a speed of 8 to 10, and to always keep a repair ship handy. Speeds less than eight can't get close enough to launch the boarding capsule, and speeds greater than 10 will chase the target away so fast the capsule may not be able to catch it. (I don't give my ships orders in combat; if you do, you can get away with faster speeds because you can order your ship to turn around after launching.)

There are two reasons to keep a repair ship handy: most ships you cap will be slow or immobilized, and you can get your boarding ship back ready for another round.

When designing a boarding ship, it's not worth the trouble if you only use a single boarding party. Weapons are only needed to get shields down, so you can get by with less. It's better to have too many BP's than too few - it means a speedier cap, and a prize ship with less damage.

In theory, shield-depleting weapons and engine-destroying weapons are good. I have had some disappointing results in fleet actions because immobilized ships get killed before the BP's can do their thing.

In the strats, you'll want to instruct your boarding ships to stop shooting before killing their target. Once in a great while they'll do what they're told, and every bit helps. Have them select targets with the least shields and the most armor, so the target can survive long enough for your marines to do the job. Also "least crew" is recommended. Don't use "nearest (absolute), but rather allow 5 ls or 10 ls intervals so they can choose the best target.

As the game progresses ships get bigger and have bigger crews. The size of your boarding ships has to keep pace or they'll need to avoid going after the big stuff. The warp point ambush can still be effective for your smaller ships. A ring of boarding ships has little trouble landing multiple parties, and the process is fast. Unfortunately, so is gunnery; so it's only good for low-traffic warp points. If you have a large garrison, ships will die too soon and the BP's go to waste. For those who don't mind the work, manual placement on the map can help a lot. Use multiple rings of ships to control the timing. It takes a little practice, but it isn't all that hard to figure out.

I once tried going all out for capping tech from the start of the game. It's fun, but I don't really recommend it. The idea is to analyze capped ships in order to catch up on techs, but there's a drawback: you get behind on tech and it slows your expansion. Even when you catch up on tech, you're still behind in expansion. And you still have to get all your prerequisites in. You can't analyze a ship and get shields if you don't have physics. Once you get physics, you can skyrocket in shields, but it's not the goldmine I was expecting. There's also some sort of limit on how much higher a tech can be than your own. For example, analyzing level 10 armor when you're at level one doesn't work. From what I've seen, I think the limit's around five. The experts may know more.

Within fleets, I try to keep my boarding ships in their own separate TF. If they arrive first, they've got a good shot at taking a prize. If they arrive late, it depends on how the rest of the fleet's doing. Usually leftovers aren't in very good shape. I lean toward having them break formation immediately, but there are timing advantages to keeping them in formation as well. It depends on how many you have and how big they are.

It's often easy to organize an handful of boarding ships into their own group and hunt individual enemy ships. Don't forget to have a repair ship tagging along. Fleets are trouble. Even if you do cap a ship or two, it's likely the enemy will destroy them.

Strategically, you should always go after the highest tech opponents when capping. It's a risky enterprise, and the payoff's low if you're just taking home old junkers. You can also hunt colony ships for other atmosphere types. You can't analyze them for the colony tech, but you can use those ships to colonize planets you couldn't otherwise get. Racial tech fleets aren't appealing unless you just like the ships they build.

The future of boarding is uncertain. The next patch is supposed to let the AI know to run away from hopeless battles, so we may need to have fighters (or other little stuff) along to surround the hex before capping. As of 1.35, the AI doesn't self-destruct so you don't need to shy away from ships with those devices. If the AI learns to self-destruct, boarding ships will become a novelty - it'll be better to build something else and let the enemy suffer from wasting space. But there'll always be a little room in the game for boarding - it's just a matter of scale.

That's about all I can think of. Just remember to use minimal firepower. You only need to knock down the shields. It's not easy to keep the right balance when your enemy varies in shield strength. You won't win every time, but you can win frequently.

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exelsiar's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by exelsiar on Thu, 2007-06-28 16:29.

suddenly makes me think fighters should get weapon/engine destroying weaponry, and drones the same in warheads (if they dont already i never checks)
_____________________

Grand Lord Exelsiar of the Azra-Dun Commonwealth, at your service

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Thu, 2007-06-28 17:27.

Drones do have some special warheads.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Sat, 2007-06-30 17:03.

That's a splendid idea! Such fighters could be helpful in the right numbers.

The special drone warheads didn't work last time I tried them. Ships blew up same as with regular warheads. I can't remember about mines, but mines are so buggy it ain't funny.

Wouldn't hurt to station some boarding ships behind a moderate-strength minefield to snack on cripples. Sort of a spider & web strategy. Good use for a group of obsolete boarders, I would expect.

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Sat, 2007-06-30 17:27.

You still get the damage from the drone ramming the ship, and I suppose a frigate doesn't resist that... did you try it on bigger ships?

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Sat, 2007-06-30 17:38.

Frigates and DD's. I think that game was stock, but I don't remember everything perfectly. I'll try again sometime - probably when the new patch comes out. My present game is crawling along, techwise (I'm using some handicaps to keep things challenging). And I lucked into both massive shield depleters and massive engine destroying weapons, so that's what I'm using.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by rahlubenru on Mon, 2007-07-02 03:40.

A bit off topic but if it can be changed, i'm assuming it can't be modded, or maybe it can? But anyway, i think that the self destruct device should start a countdown (call it preperation time) from the point the enemy board the ship, if the countdown reaches zero before the ship is taken then the ship blows up upon successful capture, and, this time could then decrease with research into some self destruct tech.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Mon, 2007-07-02 04:10.

Not a bad idea.

I think the device will be trouble, since if they're not careful and just activate it upon being boarded... well, a single boarding party could destroy a good-sized ship. The thing needs to be implemented intelligently. It should only be activated when there's a serious cap threat, and a countdown timer's a good idea too.

The whole business about destroying the boarding ship's probably bluff. BP's are launched from a pretty safe range, and I doubt they can be easily "tracked". And what'd happen when multiple ships launch capsules? I s'pose I could test this in the simulator if I really cared.

The device needs to be re-thought and the program will need more than a single simple change to implement it.

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Mon, 2007-07-02 08:20.

An option to set the percentage of defending crew/attacking marines to when to self-destruct the ship, and a chance of failure for the self-destruct device based on this percentage.

With a small percentage, the self-destruct device would have more chance to get desactivated, but with a bigger one the ship could get self-destructed even if all hope is not lost.

Also maybe point defense could fire on boarding ships (if they don't do already).

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Tue, 2007-07-03 13:20.

Point defense does not fire on the boarding capsule. It's like the landing capsules troops use to attack planets.

Realism is taking a hit here, unless they've got a Geneva Convention in the quadrant. I don't see any handy way to avoid it.

If this were to change, both types of capsules would need to be very tough. And they'd need to launch multiple capsules instead of one per ship.

One could argue that boarding parties have been obsolete for some time now. But I say they're too much fun, and the game's better off including them.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by zilfondel on Mon, 2007-07-09 16:39.

Well, a drone itself will do around 600 damage (without warheads) so only use them on larger, well-armored & shielded ships (frigates and destroyers will almost always pop). On larger ships you can cripple them with a single, well-placed non-warhead drone. With armor, of course, to protect vs. PD.

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Noumenon's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Noumenon on Sun, 2007-08-12 09:16.

One thing I never understood about these tips is the bit about have a ship with speed 8 to 10, as any faster ship will "chase them away." Is this some characteristic of stock? Most ships in Balance Mod move 12 to 16, so a ship that moved 8 would never catch anything.

Are you talking about ships that are set at Maximum Range and will start turning to keep you from closing with them? I still think going faster would get you closer than going 8 to 10.

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BlueTemplar's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by BlueTemplar on Sun, 2007-08-12 11:07.

I think he was talking about the fact that SEV have an upper speed limit for missiles relative to the "aether of the combat referential": If you fire a missile while you pursue another ship, sometimes that missile would "burn out" before hitting the enemy ship because of all the additionnal space it would have to travel before hitting it.
I have not been able to reproduce this with capture pods. (Nor with seekers with the latest patch IIRC)

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by marhawkman on Wed, 2007-08-15 10:24.

I have. Yes capture pods can "burn out". that's why I use them with tractor beams.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Dvoongar on Thu, 2007-08-16 02:57.

Ships set to any range other than "point blank" will attempt to maintain distance. In stock, all ships default to "optimal range". Optimal or long range ships will frequently outrun the capture pod if the boarding ship chases them.

Even if the pod does not burn out, it will take it much longer to arrive, and that's obviously a bad thing.

Boarding ships at the speed(s) I recommend will not be able to cap unarmed vessels which flee immediately, except at warp points. But this would be true in most cases even if you built them to max speed. Under normal conditions you'll cap the ships which close with you, and the others will escape.

As for the too slow end of the spectrum, consider the time it takes for the enemy to turn and flee. Since cap pods only launch at short range, a boarding ship is too slow if it can't close to short range during the time the enemy is turning to flee (maintain its preferred range).

Edit: I continue to forget that others don't play as I play. Those who take manual control of their ships can avoid the chasing problem by manually turning their own ships, so that portion of my advice is of little value to them.

I'll try to do better in the future.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by marhawkman on Fri, 2007-08-24 06:16.

I've noticed that turning and running away will cause fleeing ships to doubleback and run into your cpture pods.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by Seitch on Mon, 2007-11-12 16:09.

Ok, so can you get the racial specific techs by boarding and capturing ships? Like organic or crystal technology? Because your own race doesn't have those basic technolgies.

When you capture planets, can you get the race specific techs? I've just been doing planetary bombardment and re-colonizing. Thanks.

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Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by pyroman on Mon, 2007-11-12 16:25.

I have captured ships with temporal weapons and I did not get the temporal weapons tech, I just got other research.

Come to think about it, it is a good thing you dont get that kind of research. otherwise you could spend the points on everything else and then just capture all the technology you didnt put points into. It would be a waste to put points into that 1,000 point tech if you could just capture it.

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groovyfishguy's picture

Re: A few ship capture tips

Submitted by groovyfishguy on Mon, 2007-11-12 19:06.

pyroman wrote:
I have captured ships with temporal weapons and I did not get the temporal weapons tech, I just got other research.

Come to think about it, it is a good thing you dont get that kind of research. otherwise you could spend the points on everything else and then just capture all the technology you didnt put points into. It would be a waste to put points into that 1,000 point tech if you could just capture it.

Intrinsically they should be unatainable to other races. They just wont ever get it. Either your born with it or not. Both for role play and balance reasons in my opionion.

Groovy Baby Yeah!

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