The biggest bug in 1p |
This fleet resupply bug is a lot worse than I realized, and probably lots of others don't see just how bad it is.
It's crippling the AI. Big time! When you or I get a fleet that's not getting supplied, we can deal with it. Disband the fleet, or use other ships to transfer... whatever. The AI can't do this. I keep coming upon fleet after fleet of AI ships that have run dry and can't fight.
Now the AI empires may not be all that smart, but at least maybe we'd have some show out of them if their fleets could engage in more than one battle before becoming defunct. And then they pay maintenance on a fleet that does nothing until doomsday.
Please give this some thought, and post whether you agree or disagree. If there's a consensus we should hope for quick action. I don't think this bug should be too difficult to fix, as bugs go; and it would make a huge difference.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
i think it´s not realy a bug in that case....it´s more a matter of not having a good AI.
the AI programming at all needs a bit reworking i think.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
The AI is generally left to the Mod Writers with Aaron having to be called in to fix broken AI code functions. The supply problem would be easiest solved using the AI-only "can resupply anywhere" cheat activated in the AI code itself, but whether Mod Writers want to resort to 'cheat with the AI' is another matter.
---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Where did you get this idea that fleets only supply one ship at a time? The script routine looks at the ships in the fleet, if one is low on supply (ie less than enough to make it to a resupply depot and because all ships in the fleet share supplies, each ship should be at the same % of their capacity) it triggers the resupply routine for the entire fleet. However, the order to resupply was not given if the fleet already had orders, meaning often they would drain their supplies anyway.
The retrofit/repair routine for fleets will send individual ships out of the fleet for retrofit/repair though.
-----
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Then Kwok, sounds like the AI routines are pretty up to snuff for the AI. So what's the issue here? Is there a bug or some other game mechanic hobbling AI fleets or is the AI just inept at using them?
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
The problem is that the fleet wouldn't clear it's orders to resupply, so it would only resupply if it had no previous orders. As you can guess, most of the time the fleet is doing something and so runs out of supplies. I've made some changes for the BM v1.07 and I think IRM already has something else in place to handle supply issues as well.
-----
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
I'm not an AI modder, but what I think is happening is that the AI is giving too many orders to it's fleets and the ships are overworked. When the 'resupply' order is given, the fleet would still have plenty of orders and would never get to the resupply depot is time. If this is true, then all that has to be done is to put a 'cancel orders' line in the AI before issuing the resupply command.
-----
an unoriginal signature
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Sorry about that - you are right with the sharing of supplies - it's just the total supplies divided by the number of ships. But like your said, such a situation should promote more resupply. However as has been described, other orders are interfering. I'm only just started to test a new routine, I'll let you guys know how effective it is.
-----
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Systems can only generate so much supply per turn. This is based on the level and number of supply depots you have in the system. If you have a large number of ships in a fleet, who have a grand total of over 1 million units of supply capacity (and a truly voracious apetite for those supplies) and only have 8000 units of supply generated per turn, its going to take forever to resupply the fleet. That 8000 supply (assuming that the fleet gets it all) will be divided evenly among the ships (since every ship in the fleet shares its supplies outside of combat) resulting in what appears to be almost no supply going to any one ship in the fleet. There's also the potential issue of just who or what in the system is getting supplies shipped to it first - is it that BB sitting over there, or that ring of satellites guarding the Warp Point? Other units requiring resupply can reduce the 8k supplies per turn going to the fleet in this example.
And with enough tech, its possible to have a single ship that can store over 1 million supplies - and go through them all in the course of one combat! That was in IRM though, using the simulator to test out some DN designs I had. With the armor bug applying to pretty much every type of armor in IRM, those ships had a hard time destroying each other - even with the best beam weapons I could get my hands on n the Time tech tree, on the largest weapon mounts possible.
So, it is entirely possible that late on in the game supply issues will dictate the destruction and reconstruction (instead of retrofitting) of fleets in order to maintain adequate supply levels.
Solar generators can alleviate this problem, as can (I believe) trashing and bulding anew cheaper ships (refitted ships have to be repaired and then resupplied, brand new ships come with full supplies, go figure) with massive amounts of supply storage.
I've never tried sitting a fleet on a planet with a supply depot, however, so I don't know whether there're any issues with the supplies stored on the planet being transferred to the fleet.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
I think what is happening when you move onto a planet, it just happens to be the supply depot planet, all of the supplies are transfered from the planet to your fleet. Since I don't know how planets regenerate their supply stocks, they may be taking from the supply depot as well. What is your resupply prioritization order set too? There may still be something in the system that is taking some of the generated supplies.
You should do 2 tests.
1. Have a fleet of ships in a system. These ships should not be given any orders and should sit in an empty hex. Then end turns until they are completely full.
2. Take the same set of ships and break them up into individual ships. Leaving them all in the same hex (or in seperate empty hex, but that will throw off the amount of supplies needed to resupply) and then wait until they are all completely full.
This will give you 2 results that will allow you to compare the same resupply in the apparently bugged and unbugged ways.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Supplies on planets are generated by Supply Depots. In the Balance Mod, each Resupply Depot generates 5000 supplies that go into the planet's storage (which would be transferred to ships in orbit etc) and 1000 supplies that are distributed remotely through the system.
A colony's initial supplies/ordnance comes from the Colony Ship that founds the colony if it has any. I don't think planets without depots generate any supplies, but someone should confirm that.
-----
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
I almost never have resupply issues unless I have a lack of supply depots. It is vitally important, I find, to go into the resupply order preferences and place all three colony types at the bottom of the list. Otherwise, supplies that are generated are being sent to planets ahead of many many more useful units and ships, which require supplies to function. Same is true of Ordinance.
And, to the original poster, I believe ships are only 'manually' resupplied when they first move over a planet. If there are not enough supplies on the planet to resupply the entire fleet (which is fairly common, particularly for large fleets) then the fleet won't get resupplied completely. Then, so long as the fleet sits there and does not move, it only gets resupplied via the 'distributed throughout system' supplies. Even if the planet under the fleet completely refills with supplies, it won't automatically transfer them to the fleet en-masse. You will have to manually transfer the supplies, or move the fleet one space (and use supplies!) and move back onto the planet.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
I agree, it cripples the AI
Bringing back the instant resupply for planets with a supply yard would fix this.
But that would be going against progress. So, an AI routine to handle that is the only way forward. Don't you think
Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
This problem was not there before this last patch. Before the patch each ship received what the supply depot gave them. Now only one ship in the stack receives this supply. I have have removed ships from the fleet to see if the fleet caused the problem but the problem was still there. Also another way to receive full supply is retrofiting ships. After retrofitng ships with updating engines the ship receives full supply. I have supply on all planets but I am unaware what they receive per turn. This is problably the only thing that saves the A. I. since they actually retrofit. This is a very crippling bug as movement is severely restricted. I am playing the vanilla game.
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
Free supplies/ordnance for new ships built is a bug IMHO. Not only it's not realistic, but it makes logistic strategies unnecessary, when you can simply build a new supply ship within your fleet, pump it dry, and then disband it.
Could that be modded?
Another solution would be to make all supply containing components very expensive. Also, it would be great if you could scrap supplies/ordnance for rads/minerals. (and pop for nutrients? 
)
Re: The biggest bug in 1p
if there's a bug, then send a savegame to aaron.
-----
an se5a is a ww1 fighter, it is also a car.