IRM 0.99a is ready for download.

Great!
Looking on changelog I think there is not many changes? Correct me if am wrong.

I think you forgot to put the script files on the ftp again.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Guess I'll have to make some time to challenge this version. Gah, so much to do, so little time...

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

Does this include the latest and greatest version of FQM? I think he just released one too.

Javaslinger

Congratulations on the new release, I look forward to trying it out. I updated the technology tree spreadsheet to 0.99a in case there were any changes to the tech layout, and I uploaded it to this wiki:

http://interrelatedmod.wikispaces.com/Technology

I'm not sure what the outcome was from the discussion in the old thread about which wiki was most appropriate. If I can upload it somewhere more useful, please let me know!

As always, I apply my own personal tweaks to any mod I play. For reference, I list them below:

+ Hex side Point Width returned to 20.0
+ System Point Radius From Center returned to 410.0
+ "Near Misses" do 30% damage and proc 20% of the time
+ "Critical Hits" do x1.5 damage and proc 30% of the time
+ Reverted Migration back to original values (5% initial, raise every 1000)
+ "Low/Med/High Computer Players" now means 2~3/4~6/7~10
+ "Low/Med/High Neutral Players" now means 1~3/5~7/8~10
+ Can see Warp Points at any distance
+ Space Combat Max Time set to 3 min
+ Combat Map Radius set to 1000

Will be starting a Medium sized map with Medium random AI players of no bonus and starting from scratch (1 homeworld, Good quality; no tech bonus).

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

I am loving this mod! Great job Fallen Haven! I just have one, probably dumb, question. Where do I put the Scripts? Thanks ahead of time.

One immediate comment: I will never ever have supply problems due to the obscenely cheap Supply Storage components. Once my fleets can have space yards, they will never run out of supplies as they can build a cheap ship loaded with Supply/Ordnance storage, then scrap it immediately after it distributes its goods.

Previous incarnations of IRM have always almost trivialised Logistics, but hmm... if you want my advice, it's to cut Resupply Depot supply/ordnance production to 20% of what they are (but keep the vast amount that planets can store), code the AI to build multiple resupply depots at key locations if need be, and make Supply/Ordnance storage expensive again (emergency building supplies should be expensive afterall).

I shouldn't be able to design an explorer ship that never ever has to return to resupply (these ships are meant to die 30 systems away) right from turn 1.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

Uuuuu, another tasty mod to eat up. Thanks guys for doing what we lazy people would love to do but just don't have the "time" to do. I luv you all. Keep up the good work.

_______________________________________________________________________

Space Empires V rocks and rolls all day long sweet Suzy.

But this is the minor of the two points I made: fleets will never have logistics problems because space yard components will be able to produce these Supply ships very quickly (put minimal engines and just the basic vehicle control) and cheaply. Or ok, planets may have to produce them until space yards can do so later, but point still stands that mobile supplies can be built far too cheaply.

Edit:

Hmm, I must remember to give the AI a bonus next time. Either that or I need to be xenophobic and accept no treaties with anyone (read: play without alien immigrants). I have twice as much population as any of the AI empires.

Oh well, I can still look forward to the improved AI war algorithms once I get round to a war. That's kinda the problem - I've done nothing to offend anyone (aside from some neutral empire) and they've all signed Non-Aggression/Tech-Exchange/Migration treaties with me. Means I'll have to declare war on them myself when the time comes (which is never a good sign as I'll only declare when I'm ready with a massive fleet).

Edit 2:

Small Combat Sensors need to have their tech pre-req fixed (still pointing to Basic Sensors).

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

No you don;t have to give it bonus. Just play medium sized with low number of ai's without neutrals.
Or large sized with medium number of ai' without neutrals.
I watched couple of games, ai exhaust each other in wars,
when there is no room for expansion , and they rarely sign migration treaties with each other, but they sometimes do.
I didn;t played with politics at all, except, now peaceful
ai's will almost always forgive, and aggressive one's don;t.
How game will be played depends much on type of ai's that get in. Neutrals can just cripple expansion of ai' for now,
cause politics is not good at all currently. Will have to
play with it by next version.

Greetings, Branimir.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

There might be a new bug lurking somewhere... In any game I setup, just as I press end turn for the first time, the game locks up in player´s 2 turn... the progress bar doesn´t progress at all. weird... never happened in other IRM versions

Yay, can't wait for the 0.999z version!

Oops, double post...
BTW I have the same problem in all my games so far: the AI never declares war first unless I do something to annoy him.

It couldn't be in any game. It's just happens that that
ai spends lot of time seeking what to research.
And that only happens on turn one for some reason.
I started lot of games and that happened once to
me too. I didn't thought that it is significant to
investigate further, because
if you wait some more game will continue.
But, you probably didn;t set up random ai's, rather
specific ones, that's why, I guess, it always happens with
player 2.
If you could tell me which one is it I could look into
issue and see why it spends so much time.

Greetings, Branimir.

Must I restart current game in order to play? Im quite far and enjoying the game im playing!

LOL, that sucks. And its so tempting too. Oh wells. Gonna have to start a new game.

ANOTHER ONE!!!!?
AND I WAS WINNING TOO!!!!

You churn these out fast...
Nice...

I noticed that in this version you have access to long range scanners from turn one, but not to sensors, is this intentional?
Also I see you changed research centres back to an output of 500 rp, that's quite a big change from the last version, won't this make research too fast?

Anyhow, it's good to see the steady rate of new patches, I'm anxious to see what the AI will do to me in this version.

I can't get the mod to work for me... I extracted into the GameType folder as instructed... but when I go into a new game there are no ship styles or race portraits to choose and the game won't let me begin... could someone please advise me on what I am doing wrong/how to fix??? Cheers!!

Question, does this mod have ships mass reduce speed?, more mass less speed unless you put more engines on or more advanced engines produce more thrust?.

You do have the full mod already installed right?.

Check youve installed it into the correct folder, look at the files and make sure its where its supposed to be, you could easily install it so that it has a folder with it in, (which does not register as a mod to play) rather than sitting where it should and show up as the IRM mod to play.

You do have the full mod already installed right?.

I was assuming the download link at the beginning of the thread was the full mod... rearranging the folders a bit helped... Thanks for the response, Kirk

I did start a new game, but I also did load a race during gamesetup that I had created for an earlier game of IRM. I guess that this is what messed up the components.

Larger ship sizes require more total engines to get the same speed, and the maximum speed (how fast ship is with maximum number of engines allowed) decreases slightly with each larger ship design. Of course researching better engines can increase the maximum speed of every ship size, but the larger ones will still be slower than the smaller ones.

I'm getting something similar to this, but with every AI, every turn. When each AI starts its turn, there's a 10-15 second pause with no progress bar, then the green bar appears and the turn progresses normally.. until the next AI's turn. My turn processing with previous versions of IRM used to take about 30 seconds total with 7 AIs, but since .99a it's now taking 2-3 minutes thanks to this 10-15 second pause for every AI (new game, still 7 AIs). [Note: I'm not picking specific AIs, just the "generate random computer players", and it happens with every one]. Not to complain, the game is still playable, the longer turn processing is just forcing me into smaller games.

Anything before the green bar (movement phase) is script execution. I believe Bmaxa said it was due to the updated research script in the mod - which I don't think has been optimized yet.

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Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

Yes you´re absolutely correct. The first turn was too slow to process because I always select the game option to give 100000 initial RP. Everything is working fine thanx bmaxa

This research slow down does not depends on size of
the game. No matter how small or large size, every
ai will spent some time seeking what to research.
Higher level ai gets, higher delay. But I'm in turn
150, large quadrant, with 8 ais and
slow down is under second, practically not visible
. I use 3ghz cpu.

Greetings, Branimir.

You are right. Before, same script was used but was reasonable speed because it researched anything
that goes first.
Stock script wasn't written for complex research tree
with both several and recursive dependences.
It was written with only one possible tech requirement
and no recursion. You can easily grasp then, that
that wasn't working for IRM's complex research tree.
Now it works but research loop is organized in a way
to iterate with 1 level iteration, first level all cycles, then level 2 and so on with max age limit to 1 first four cycles, then 1 next four and so on. Since now research scripts distribute research percent between groups (earlier it reasearch anything that gets in, leaving expensive
techs without research or too late), there are
more loop cycles to reach level which enables
for example to start researching level 2 military
science.
But I'm not experiencing such 15 sec delay at all in my
game. Only thing in the first turn some ai's get more
percent for some areas and there is nothing to spend on more so, since there are research points to spend but
there are nothing to research, loop goes to the end
and that lasts for about 30 seconds on my comp.
I guess, that Fallen has to either to decrease number
of loop cycles or to jump by more then one.

Note to players, if you experience long delays, check
if ai players use all research points, as only if not,
research loop will go to end thus slowing down
turn processing.
Perhaps for some tech area group research points are
not all spent, but didn't happen to me yet.

Greetings, Branimir.

I confirm that there is a hang on, every turn for most AI. From 1 to 15 seconds each. This is a bit annoying.

As for game balance, you are far too much generous for the supply pod, but I can correct this one at least.

Also the emergency pods have not been revised, they are useless as of now.

Keep up the good job!

I only experience a hang on the first turn for 2nd player, it lasts quite a minute or 2 for me, but other than that it runs fine the rest of the game.

Also, how much RP does research facility level 2 produce?

I have updated research script.
It's at:
http://rapidshare.com/files/24359358/Script_AI_Research.txt

Reduced number of loops and increased research level jump,
so it should be three times faster now and first turn
hang should last much shorter.

Recompile process, I guess you all know.
grab the scripts, replace research script with this one.
in script parser click on makefile button, choose all_races_makefile,
wait a bit then copy all
[empire]_main_script.csf and [empire]_setup_script.csf compiled script files in appropriate
[empire] folders under gametypes/[irm]/empires.
There are two batch files cp.bat and cp1.bat which you can either
use to copy or move those files in there,
but you have to change game path in those first.

Greetings, Branimir.

Hmm... someone mentioned some trouble with diplomacy before. I noticed some weird behavior of the AI... actually, I´ve colonized a neutral empire system, and it did attack me. However, its demeanor was always receptive or amiable, and it never declared war... even after I´ve fragged some 5 frigs fleets and conquered half its planets he he. In fact, it even offered some pretty good treaties. Naturally, it easily surrendered to me.

That is how it suppose to be. Neutrals are always weak,
so they will try peaceful way but any ai that is
attacked will defend itself. Just fear factor dictates
that they don;t declare war if they are weak.
Problem with diplomacy is that ai almost never offers
migration treaty. Another problem is that neutrals
will always accept anything since they are weak,
including migration pact so player can take advantage on
that and make non domed colonies early.
Also I'm not sure about current parameters regarding
acceptance of such treaties.
For best game experience I recommend playing without
neutrals for this version.

Greetings, Branimir.

Nah, this is not because of research. I have ai with
few thousand units and more then 200 ships and each turn
with that much number of units need several seconds to be processed by scripts. But movement processing after script
is quite long. So I've tested new research script and
it does not affects turn time but changes research order
so I have remove it from link. First turn slowdown
is not much of a problem since this is only one turn,
will reduce number of loops in next version.

Greetings, Branimir.

SpaceEmpires.net | Space Empires Wiki

I was wondering when you create a treaty and it says:

"The abbidon empire will give [BLANK] 20% of their income every turn."

Do you still get the stuff? Like my empire name isn't there but its just a blank.

I thought so, do you have an idea what the problem is?, i looked at a mod that has this (Gritty?) and wondered how much change was required to port yours to achive the same effect.

Thanks, i kinda thought thts how it would pan out in the long term, been only playing the first 50 or so turns to get a feel for the game system, so asking seemed a good way to confirm, now if use older hull size, ie lower mass, i can have faster ship, which i can do by haveing the minister not auto have the most modern slots flled, is that correct?, when i build a new design.

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

Right, my meaning was I'm down to using fewer AIs. However the problem seems to decrease over time - it doesn't disappear right away the 2nd turn, but by about 10 turns in my turn processing is back to normal (except every now and then, there's that pause, guess the AI came to a tough research decision..). Seems odd, but I can deal with a temporary delay in the first few turns, no complaints here.

Correct. For example, if you use nuclear engines, frigates get up to 12 movement, light cruisers up to 10 (and they take more engines to do so). So if you've researched light cruisers, you can still design frigates if you prefer the higher speed for something.

Ok, so in tactical combat then, a faster ship with a missile sysytem could maintain its distance (after its initial run and turn)and hit without a return strike if it has a weapon reach over its foe, ie when i click the weapon range i can see if my early missle has reach over the zero g armament, and the way to max out this or help if i dont hav ethe bech advantage that gives the reach advantage yet is to max out hull size to a min to get a faster ship, since ive yet to research this far into the game ive not yet seen this but guess thats the optimum way to do it, of course this nshould work with any weapon system, the problem from what i observe is the turning speed as well as wondering if the 12/10 difference is not to small when translated into tactical combat movement allowance. Cleary youve had a bit more experience at this so can i pick your brains for you input on the relationship between mps and combat speed, any thoughts would be apreciated.

Are you sure your memory is releasing itself for use?, that could be why your experiencing a delay, iirc out of the box memory config for xp is not exactly good...

What are the recommended settings for a challenging, but not impossible AI experience?

I was kind of annoyed at the fact that small and large versions of components in IRM use the same pictures, which makes it hard to tell them appart. I made new pictures for the small cargo storage, ordnance storage and supply storage, they now look different from their larger versions. The zip file also includes the changed components.txt file (0.99a).

the zip file:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=509657

for a quick preview of a ship using both small and large versions of components:
http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smallcomponentsoy4.jpg

Just extract the contents of the .zip file into your Inter-Related conversion directory. Please note that the changes appear to be save-game breaking, start a fresh game if you want to use this. Feel free to add this to whatever mod you want, all I did was some pixel editing of the original images.

I am 51 turns into a game and the AI still hasn't built any combat sensors on their frigates. But other than that everything seems fine.

Ok nvm, the AI has combat sensors on their ships now, just seems pretty late for them to get them at turn 55ish, but I am playing with high technology cost and high AI bonus.

I'll try and make new pictures for those cases if I run into them while playing the game. I won't have much free time in the comming two weeks though.

Yes thats nothing, i wonder if thats deliberate or not?, does the AI use E propulsion for warships to boost speed in combat or, as ive seen so far, only to evade combat?. otherwise it would seem that better engines ought to produce a better combat speed return than at present, but if the intent was to have E propulsion during combat fill that role then im on the wrong track.