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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V Multiplayer

Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Badger's picture
Submitted by Badger on Thu, 2007-02-01 22:33. Space Empires V Multiplayer

Well,
I thought this up while at work - part of my reason is invalidated... but not all. Dam that torpedo, full speed ahead.

I keep spitting out ideas, some people find them interesting, some have their own way of doing things perfected enough that they are not interested. Others tell me, DO IT...

...so I WAS thinking, with IR and Balance mods down (was),
a perfect oportunity to see if there WAS really any advance in the stock AI for 1.25.

There are cahnges i am working on myself, and wanted to invite anyone interested to try them out with me.

my wish list for contributors includes: The Grendel, not for his enhanced Bananas, but for his tech mods (hope ours can co-exist..)..
CherryMoon's AI script improvements (i'm trying the better known 2 in my personal games - I'll say it again : those 2 kept me playing when i lost interest in stock Se5 due to the boring AI)...
Riptokus for his new shipsets - and general idea-checking (constant arguing Eye-wink )
Stuka - whom i'd actually ask to host the game - b/c he doesn't have time to commit to turns but might occaisionally be able to log turns to back up the AI.

Who'd i leave out for now?

Things I'd like to Playtest:
play if you are interested in testing these changes:
* turns out boarding-shuttle fighters are OUT Sad
* Torpedoes/Missiles fix (the simple version; the enhancement idea is better but still in progress ... it does work - didn't think it would.. but it's more work than i'm ready for)
The relatively simple fix just makes CSM's shorter-range, and torpedoes staggered in availability, each dependent on later techs. torps replace missiles as the longest-reach weapon, but have to be researched.
* Drones - my version. Closer to the original SFB drones.
* big troops - once again i agree with F.H.
* resistance to Boarding Parties - ship crews will fight harder than in regular stock, but not quite as tough as in IRM
* cargo fixes - you can't carry more weight than the hull & engines were designed for "for free" a 35 kt fighter, for example, takes 35kt - period.
(anyone who can show me how to script "1 fighter requires 1 bay?" support for working, not just cargo, fighters is ALOT more than empty space. ask anyone who's worked on one.)
*Tech tree changes - not so ambitious yet, but already present.
*AUTOCANNONS.
Oh, come on, you knew that was coming.
The DUC-"gun" becomes the autocannon - it has a CHANCE to shoot down seekers and fighters, yet amazingly enough, ultra-dense ultra-velocity projectiles, though effectively short range, can hurt ships.
As a general-purpose weapon, you will find the AI's hordes of cannon gunships are no longer helpless against anything OTHER than other short-range brawler ships... Be Prepared- this is the one I have playtested the most:
http://spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/2261#comment-13079
it makes quite a difference.

Hope to see you there.

‹ pbem large .cmb file - ways to prevent?? house rules? ›
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Badger's picture

No responses?

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-02-02 07:19.

You're not scared of a little ol' AutoCannon are ya?

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Martock's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Martock on Fri, 2007-02-02 18:11.

Not scare of an autocannon and I used to fill my mechs up with them back in the day. I wouldn't mind doing a bit o'play testing but I'm not usually free until midnight EST.

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Atrocities's picture
Mod Designer

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Atrocities on Fri, 2007-02-02 20:24.

Can I infer from your post that English might not be your first language? Smiling

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Badger's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-02-02 20:45.

hmmmn. B-Tech has come up an awful lot lately...

Anybody play the Strategic level Inner-Sphere game, Secession War?

The AC's I'm referring to here are quite different-
although the writer i liked - grey death legion writer - saw AC's much as i do.

But in this context, it's quite a different weapon. We've had rows about it..

Love to have you, tho!

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Badger's picture

'Geek' is my first language!

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-02-02 20:49.

Atrocities wrote:
Can I infer from your post that English might not be your first language? :)

Hopefully that was just my horrid typing...
Which resembles that of a blind weasel on methamphetamines!

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Martock's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Martock on Fri, 2007-02-02 21:04.

Is this gonna be a PBW style or just a test the changes in a game vs. AI?

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Badger's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-02-02 21:16.

i was referring to multiplayer... BUT

in the meantime i keep BEGGING people to try for themselves how the game changes when you put fallen haven's autocannon in the game IN PLACE OF the DUC the stupid AI can't get enough of.
(replace DUC in data/components.txt file with Ac )
give that a try and get back to me so i can see if that's just "my beautiful baby" complex I'm seeing or if it really is that drastically different.! ?

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Martock's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Martock on Fri, 2007-02-02 21:21.

Where do I get a hold of FH's auto-cannon? I'm guessing I will have to start a new game for this one or can this be added on the fly to a current game?

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Badger's picture

AutoCannon...

Submitted by Badger on Sat, 2007-02-03 01:37.

1. Yes, you can add it to an already-running game. In fact, I kept suggesting people add it to 1/2 forgotten old games aginst helpless AI's as its trial run. I did:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/2287#comment-13077

2. This is Fh's AutoCannon, slightly modified for stock. If you are running IRM already, just cut the DUC altogether and paste the next component in its place.
if you need it for stock, this should work: find the duc in the data folder, components.txt file... use "find" under edit... (find cannon or depleted , whatevr u like) - right there, paste this, then cut out altogether the DUC entry.
if you keeep both, the components are read by place 3, so you will cause some strangeness unless you REPLACE, not just add.

the file? cut aand paste THIS:


Name := AutoCannon
Description := Short range cannon which fires bursts of ultradense,

ultravelocity shells.
Picture Number := 179
Maximum Level := 100
Tonnage Space Taken Formula := 20
Tonnage Structure Formula := 20 * (1 + ((Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Armor")) * 0.1))
Cost Minerals Formula := 70 * (1 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 0.05))
Cost Organics Formula := 1 * (1 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 0.05))
Cost Radioactives Formula := 2 * (1 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 0.05))
Supply Amount Used Formula := 2
Ordnance Amount Used Formula := 2
Can Be Placed On Vehicle Types := Ship, Base, Satellite
Can Be Placed In Ship Sections := Outer Hull
Component Type List := Technological
General Group := Weapons
Custom Group := 0
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Projectile

Weapons.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Projectile Weapons") >= (1 +

([%Level%] - 1))
Requirement 2 Description :=
Requirement 2 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Armor") >= 0
Requirement 3 Description :=
Requirement 3 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Storage") >= 0
Number Of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Ordnance Storage
Ability 1 Description := Provides storage for [%Amount1%] units of ordnance.
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 60 * (1 + ((Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Storage")) * 0.06))
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Ability 2 Type := Multiplex Tracking
Ability 2 Description := Can track [%Amount1%] targets at once.
Ability 2 Scope := Space Object
Ability 2 Range Formula := 0
Ability 2 Amount 1 Formula := 5
Ability 2 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Weapon Type := Point-Defense
Weapon Delivery Type := Projectile
Weapon Target Type List := Drone, Seeker, Fighter, Satellite, Ship, Base
Weapon Damage Type Formula := "Normal"
Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment := 10.0
Weapon Space Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (45 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 4.5) * 0.2) - iif([%Range%] >

Min(70, (([%Level%] - 1) * 5) + 50), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := (45 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 4.5) * 0.2) - iif([%Range%] >

Min(70, (([%Level%] - 1) * 5) + 50), 10000, 0)
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 30 - ((([%Range%] - 25) ^ 2) ^ 0.55)
Weapon Reload Rate MS Formula := 1.8 * (1000 - ((([%Level%] - 1) * 10) * 0.25))
Weapon Display Type := Bolt
Weapon Space Display Effect Name := Small Bolt 1
Weapon Ground Display Effect Name := Bolt 1
Weapon Explosion Effect Name := [Random Specific Type] Weapon Explosion
Weapon Sound Effect Name := Small Depleted Uranium Cannon
Weapon Bolt Speed := 0.07

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Re: AutoCannon...

Submitted by Riptokus on Sat, 2007-02-03 01:56.

Don't forget to backup your old components file.

Back to UV Mapping Eye-wink

(shoot me please?)

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Martock's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Martock on Sat, 2007-02-03 15:27.

Okie dokie...I'll give it a whirl when i get home tonight. I'm in a war with an AI right now and will probably get into another with 3 others shortly.

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Badger's picture

Re: AutoCannon...

Submitted by Badger on Sat, 2007-02-03 21:42.

Riptokus wrote:
(shoot me please?)
With an autocannon? Love to. Eye-wink

Anyway, the irony - it was pointed out that not long after suggesting that AC's NOT be multiplex tracking, to differentiate from DEDICATED point defense -
i forgot to edit out the multiplex ability from the AC stats i posted.
also, I think of it as a burst, not just lower reload time - i plan on making multibarrel art for it - s i would think damamge should be a little more variable (not same min-max).

Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience my hasty oversigth inflicted!
ps> also ironically, i then find out its the ONE post i can't edit... Hmmmn.

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Mod Designer

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2007-02-04 20:19.

Just so you realize, the multiplex tracking ability doesn't actually DO anything. Its just a leftover from SE4.

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Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Riptokus on Sun, 2007-02-04 20:29.

Multiplex tracking should be back in IMO. It was standard on all my PD ships. Without it, fighters tear up stuff.

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Badger's picture

Re: just so you realize

Submitted by Badger on Sun, 2007-02-04 21:08.

Phoenix-D wrote:
Just so you realize, the multiplex tracking ability doesn't actually DO anything...

Sir, i believe you are mistaken:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/2441#comment-13811
all i can say is sim it and double-check.

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Badger's picture

Drones... Thanks, Grendel!

Submitted by Badger on Sun, 2007-02-04 21:10.

..Are fixed, at least in the sense of not warping -
so there is actually a point to having ships launch them now.
just watch out for genetically-engineered banana!

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Captain Kwok's picture
Mod Designer

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Captain Kwok on Sun, 2007-02-04 22:11.

Phoenix-D wrote:
Just so you realize, the multiplex tracking ability doesn't actually DO anything. Its just a leftover from SE4.

To further that thought, multiplex tracking isn't even intended to divide up fire in the fashion being described. It allowed a ship to target other ships after destroying since SE:IV weapons fire was sequential and didn't suffer the same damage overkill problem that SE:V does.

-----

Space Empires Depot | SE:V Balance Mod

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Mod Designer

Re: just so you realize

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2007-02-04 22:37.

Badger wrote:
Phoenix-D wrote:
Just so you realize, the multiplex tracking ability doesn't actually DO anything...

Sir, i believe you are mistaken:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/2441#comment-13811
all i can say is sim it and double-check.

I removed the multiplex ability, and a ship still fires on as many targets as its firepower and strategy will allow..

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Badger's picture

Re: just so you realize

Submitted by Badger on Sun, 2007-02-04 23:03.

hmmn...
Interesting, that.

so you get multiplex with or without the ability, in effect?
i guess what you think you are seeing graphically (like the ssatellite shooting for its whole group - isn't necessarily what you get.

...for what its worth, I really appreciate you CHEcKING instead of assuming.

i presume what i was seeing was the ship shooting -not QUITE simultaneously- but simply very quickly at each target - i mean, hell, its got 10 - probably 3-4 at any target satisfied the targetting criteria?(of dmg assigned, i mean).

Do you REALLY think you will subvert System Vampyre before it subverts YOU?

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Mod Designer

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2007-02-04 23:26.

Pretty much, yeah. You can do it manually, if you like: run a sim and instead of right-clicking on a target click the..uh I think its "targeting" button. That will let you set a seperate target for each weapon..

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Badger's picture

"PlayTest Me" Update

Submitted by Badger on Wed, 2007-02-07 18:27.

Update:
You know, the changes aren't really sweeping enough to be called a real mod yet. This is still more or less playtesting specific changes.

* turns out boarding-shuttle fighters are OUT
* Drones - my version.
drone warheads are soon to be fixed:
http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/2430(thanks for the heads-up Kwok!)
Closer to the original SFB drones. PeekAtChu wanted HonorHarrington-style IntraSystem cruise missiles... so there goes. so far, so good. They're smaller, more balanced, and now there is a POINT to having drone-launcher components...
* Big Troops - once again i agree with F.H.
Done.
* Resistance to Boarding Parties - ship crews will fight harder than in regular stock, but not quite as tough as in IRM
* Cargo fixes - you can't carry more weight than the hull & engines were designed for "for free" a 35-kt fighter, for example, takes 35kt - period.
Having trouble getting to recognize the "cargo complex" (lg cargo bay), but otherwise all is well!
still working on stomping the fighter bay exploit, but you will no longer find several hundred ktons of stuff fitting on a ship for a few kt's of space/weight. Bulk is bulk.
*Tech tree changes - not so ambitious yet, but already present.
Computer technology is a major tech, and required for some technologies you may take for granted. Several techs will have multiple requirements (as Q. Torpedo was meant to in stock, for example)
*External Ordnance Racks/Larger weapons:
suggested by several players, several ways to fix it. i for one would like to see fighters carry 1-shot missiles or torpedo racks. Someone suggested making drones even smaller and firable by fighters like cruise missiles from a backfire bomber...
*AUTOCANNONS. Eye-wink

..turn out to be fairly effective. i had switched sides in my old stock game, and found myself running an autocannon destroyer against one of my old empire's destroyers...
Yes, the "Badger"... 4 large-weapon mounted beam brawler with better tech all-around, more & better shields and armor...

A human player might have turned out of short range and eaten me alive with the superior range of antiproton beams...

The 10-Autocannon lower tech destroyer lived up to its name... it still had almost all of its armor when my old empires ship exploded.
...and turns out to be more than a match for a squadron of 6 fighters...

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Badger's picture

Re: "PlayTest Me" Update - Anyone Up Today?

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-02-09 09:34.

Grendel... Ginger?

Anyone wanting to try out some minor modifications to how stuff works..

i keep wanting to do some serious changes, but, until i can make AI progress - or team with someone who can - I don't want to think of this as a mod, just slight changes to stock.

i f anyone is interested in a small game today .. lEt me know...(yawns).

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Mod Designer

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2007-02-11 13:19.

As far as cargo goes, keep in mind that modern ships can often carry more than they weigh. Its a bit different in space ships, but the same principle applies..

You probably won't be able to make drones firable from fighters. SE5 won't let you put cargo in cargo. Long-range extremely long reload seekers would work, though.

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Badger's picture

Re: Put your Mod Where Your Mouth Is > BillyGoatGruff Game

Submitted by Badger on Sun, 2007-02-11 13:50.

1- Most vessels list displacement both loaded and unloaded. The full weight with load has to be considered for movement,etc., and deign terms.
When you are talking bulk and hullspace,(lets not get into external cargo, e.g., tugs), capacity is what you are really "buying" in the design. The bulk doesn't disappear into a pocket dimension (except in the Mytht books Smiling )

2. As it says in the Update(or should), the 1-Shot seekers and 1-shot Large Weapons (grendel's -although the rocket pods were already close to that concept), have been implemented.

3. So far, only the one person has asked for drone launching from fighters, so i didn't work on it( my idea of drones are still a little large for this)- the idea was to make seekers MORE customizable using drone rules, I accomplished that another way, its got its own forum.

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