IRM v 0.7b

Why did you make neutron bombs so anemic? Now bombardment is next to useless. Of course I came to that realization after I outfitted my latest creation with neutron bombs.

Just finished the game with 0.7a which I won because when I finally forced the Xianti to surrender I ended up with a score 4 times that of the next best player but it was good and the first Xianti war was close. The second wisent as I had significantly better ships if not bigger and they had been at war with just about every one else in the mean time and lost half their systems. Sergetti organic cruisers where better than mine on every score except weapons (worse) and engines(same) and one on one I lost fights with them. However I was in a position to out number them and so win that way. The AI also changes its weapons sets the Xianti fought the first war with zero g weapons and the second with meson cannon They also developed shields between the two wars.

This Mod works my only issue is that the AI still keeps changing its mind about alliances or some of them do but that might just be me not the game

. No the upgrade was all the AI's own work indeed it took me a while to realise it was using Meson weapons since the fire effect looks like cannon in tactical combat. I was not until I started scanning ships that I noticed.

one thing none of the AI's used as far as I could tell was fighters but that might just have been that game but not general it did use drones some of which did have no warheads in them during the first Xianti war but by the time of the second they had significant numbers of warheads on board and destroyed a lot of my fighters and damaged a couple of my ships including crippling one of my state of the art light cruisers under the guns of a planet which pounded the hulk to bits. I don’t like losing ships so this was painful, I was also rather proud of my light cruiser design as it was a multi role ship with torpedoes and polaron cannon

Hi Fallen Angel, i recently tested your mod, and noticed weapons have multi tracking in their description. Combat Sensors increase MT even further. How did you enabled it, i thought it was impossible in SE V?

there seems to have a problem with version 0.7B , if i choose the terran confederation , the game seems about to start but i am returned to the game menu , that doesn't happen if i choose another race

Multi tracking does cause fleets or groups of ships to split fire. They will fire on more than one target rather than blindly chasing one which they are out of range of ignoring others which are in range. I have seen this quite a lot of this in fleet actions. Just about the only splitting of fire I have seen from an individual ship is the firing of auto cannon at drones whilst firing cannon at ships which are in range of the cannon but not the auto cannon. Planets I agree split fire freely and this makes multi weapon weapons platforms particularly nasty.

I have also seen troops on planets as opposed to just Militia which is good and they also engage multiple targets if multiple targets are in range. However if you manually target stuff it seems to void this ability and the units ships will go back to chasing the designated target to the exclusion of all else

Hmm, there is a nasty side effect to prioritizing facilities over ships/units. Overall it's a good idea to first build up your colony before producing military vehicles, but in the early game, as homeworlds don't start full of facilities, th AI will first build them up! This means they will have nothing to defend for quite a few turns. In my game right now, my closest neighbors, the Xiatis, are one system away (i mean there is one nebula system between me and them), i have been able to first build 6 colony ships (3 planet start), then some explorers, then when i saw he was undefended, i built a troop ship and some troops and was still able to invade it .He had a first frigate defending his planets when i reached him, but i just out-manoeuvered it and unloaded my 10 troops. I expected some militia fight, but there was nothing to defend the planet and i conquered it without firing a single weapon.

Strangely enough, a few turns later while i was expecting a war declaration, the xiaty contacted me to ask for a non aggression treaty.

Oh, and, sorry for your name

Hey, if multiplex tracking actually works, does that mean PDC can be fixed???

~~~
Check out the 21st Century Mod!

[ Ah- ha!
another Starfire holdover!

we're everywhere!

b]Anyone who wants power; by definition, cannot be trusted with it...[/b]

speaking for myself, i would like a "defensive fire" option-

i hate it when i tell ships not to shoot up civilians and it turns off my POINT DEFENSE...

Anyone who wants power; by definition, cannot be trusted with it...

I don’t think so as missiles are not starting weapons as they are in Stock and balance Mod and Pd capable weapons are very common. I have pulled it off but I had to use a destroyer hull to do it successfully on an AI frigate I fired three Nuclear missiles at the thing and it shot enough down that it took me nearly the duration of the combat to cripple the frigate. That said the destroyer was not hit by cannon fire When I tried it with a frigate with two missiles it was a waste of effort since the AI frigate shot down all the incoming missiles and neither ship was at all damaged the Ai frigate couldn’t catch me and my missiles couldn’t hit it.

In a multi ship action an all missile ship group is likely only to be able to retreat successfully from what I have seen. Missile ships are nasty in mixed groups but only for fire support of canon armed ships or with cannon and missiles. Your AI dosent obsess about cannon weapons as the one in stock does and if it does you are going to be firing tl 10 ish missiles at tl 30-40 point defence capable secondary weapons.

Missiles die to easily to point defence fire for the firing over your shoulder technique to work well Torpedoes are better for it as they can withstand point defence fire but they don’t have the range and take even more research effort to get and require you to advance two techs to improve them.

In short the IRM is balanced in this respect.

I tried another game choosing the terran confederation but again was returned to the main menu, could someone try a quick game choosing the terran confederation and tell me if the same thing happens ?

Actually i;m playin a game being the Xiati and when i saved the game i could see that on the 7 cpu controlled players the terran confederation is there and the game is going fine, it's only when on quick start using the terran confederation that i am returned to the menu

like i said i'd like someone to try choosing the terran confederation in a quick start game and tell me if the same thing happens
Thank you

No i installed space empires V the 1.20 patch and then your mod and balance mod , i don't have any problem choosing the terran confederation with vanilla game and the balance mod , only with yours that i have this problem , i didn't install other files like shipsets , nothing at all, so could u try a quick start game and choose the terran confederation and see if it returns u to the main menu ?

Would appreciate it

also i wanted to install version 0.7a to see if there was that same problem but i couldn't download it on your download link the file wasn't there anymore

I am using the Terans in a non quick start game at the moment and having no problems except that having given the AI max bonus I am currently clawing my way back from eight place at the start. I haven’t fought a war yet but I have latched my star to the coat tails of the number one empire and a neutral AI which is currently second I am third though my fleet would blow a way in a strong wind .

I also ran the 7a test as a quick start game with the Terans again with no problems.

Something odd happened to me , there was 4 enemy destroyers against one of my planets, the planet had no defenses at all and the 4 destroyers were shooting at it , but still, no damage was done to my planet not even 1 single person died

Bombarding planets in IRM is a bit pointless especialy if you are not using bombardment weapons as it takes a lot of anti ship fire to do single precentages of damage to a planet. the only way to easly kill a planet is a salvo of anti planet drones.

I also think fallen haven has been making changes to the planetry population which may also have contributed

Script sources file, where does it go?

If it's in the gametypes folder where it unzips to, I get an error because I think the game thinks it's a mod....

I put the interelated-mod folder in the gametypes folder....

Thanks,

Javaslinger

Hi There,

After reading this thread for some time I decided to download your mod. Looks good, but I noticed that I could not access any weapons techs. When I restarted the game and used the cheat ~ALLTECH~ to see the complete listing techs to see if I had to research something else, the only weapons that came up were warheads and the engine overload weapon.

I am not sure what is going on here in terms of why the weapons are not showing up on my tech screen, or why I don't have access to weapons at all.

Sincerely,

Gaultesian

This is odd for whilst The mod makes weapons a bit more of an effort to get especially the more advanced ones you should start with access to Zero g weapons troop weapons and warheads. All of these are at TL0 but are cheap to research. 2500 1000 and 2000 points respectively in a quick start game.

You will of course not see these on the design screen in the first turn but I have seldom needed guns in turn one as even if an AI starts in your system it will start in the same boat as you.

More complex and better weapons require several techs to be researched if you have an idea of what weapons you are after I could help with the prerequisites

No, I am not interested in finding and having weapons in the first few rounds. I played the game for over 2 years last night (20 rounds), and still could not access weapons. When I was curious as what type of weapons I would be able to access, I used the ALLTECH cheat and then went over to the ship design window to see what weapons I could access.

None were available.

When I went and started a new game, I wanted to test out what type of weapons I would get by using the "All technologies" studied options in the game setup screen. Again, I could not access any weapons, nor could I research any other fields (all research maxed out and all of the research was greyed out).

I have installed this mod correctly, but it wants me to play in the ultimate pacifist format - no weapons in space.

Sincerely,

Gaultesian

Thats odd as you should see the basic weapons on the reserch screen straight off and there are a very wide variety of weapons more than in stock I think in the full tree. I would be inclined to re download and reinstall the mod in case it hasent unpacked properly though its never done that with me.

How did you go about this, out of curiosity? In my Ground Combat mod I wanted to encourage invasion rather than extermination so I just lowered the damage done to population in all the entries in damagetypes.txt (down to about .001 IIRC) and added a new damage type - Bombardment - used by napalm and the like which retained the default .25. Thus allowing orbital weapons to destroy a planet's infrastructure but requiring a determined assault from a dedicated force to actually kill off the population.

I'm going to wait until the next SE V patch comes out (this Monday, so not long) and then the next version of IRM before I look at it properly but it certainly does look promising. I kinda wish SE V would have a patch to not have stuff simply display "1mT minerals produced" though (and IRM uses big numbers) - some significant figures are needed to make sense of that...

Furthermore, I really hope they fix drones so that the "many suicide warheads on the battlefield all combined" bug, "can't aim drones" bug and "initial unit supplies denied if you launch into existing unit group" bug are squished - only then will 'missile drones' be balanced/usable/fair. Still... that just means I avoid using drones except in small numbers on single targets...

---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

Ok, I just tried it again.

I realize my problem now. I was loading up a pre-set game that I had saved before, as well as a race that I had custom made before and consequently these may have been shagging it all up.

It works fine now with a brand new set of pre-game parameters and with a new custom made race (as well as the quick start races as I just tried it out).

Sincerely,

Gaultesian

I found exactly the same thing.

I didn't find this at all. I just tested it in a simulator with a maxed out Terran auto-complete attack dreadnought (seven lvl100 AP beams and five lvl100 Graviton Hellbores) against a beginning homeworld (pop 4,000, 19 facilities, some 20,000 supplies and ordnance, no other cargo). The first salvo totally destroyed all facilities and cargo, but it took nearly ten and a half minutes to kill all the population (also reduced the dread to less than 2,000 supplies out of over 60,000 and took about 60% of its ordnance).

Intermittent bug

Nameless star system occasionally on large maps you will come across a warp point to and on the other side of that is an nameless star system. I have not seen this in stock but I was wondering if you had edited the system names file at some point or increased the number of systems on a large map there being usually less than 100 systems on a standard large map and 120+ names in the system names file which is more than enough

None but there is another similar issue where you get two diferent systems with exactly the same name a few systems appart again this only happens on large maps and beyond confusing the player causes no problem.

Did anything happen to planet happiness between 0.7a and 0.7b? Using the same race build as from my 0.7a game I started a brand new 0.7b game. Whereas my population was generally jubilant last game now they're all indifferent, despite police troops etc. The only other difference was I gave the AI a low bonus (vs no bonus in my 0.7a game).

Questions:
1. What do I need to kill 1M of people? Frigate with 4 nuclear bombs lvl 1 can't do any damage to planet.
2. Amount of minerals etc mined by facilities. Is this intentional that mineral miner on 1 lvl mines 6000 per turn?

Thanks for the reply! I'll mod the settings tonite.

and here i was researching psychology in abject horror!

good observation there!

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

Historical and Recnt experience has taught us that bombardment is great for attrition- especially with increasingly-accurate targetting-

but almost never for finishing off..

i would suggest it might be effcetive for REDUCING populations- quite well and easily- but past a certain point, say? 25%, you're going to have to just SCOUR to kill the last of 'em...

i was using conventional weapons for this example, but i suppose we can assume populations will find radioactive/biological shelters, too...

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

i am really impressed by how you handled so much of the Tech stuff..

just a question: the "autocannon" version of the DUC, isn't that effectively point-defense?

why not enable it BY getting the point-defense upgrade and not get both at once?

Obviat the need for point-defense cannon - since that is effectively what he DUC autocannon is ( but more flavorful and useful a version IMO)...?

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

True but having some sort of PD earlier and earlier than any seeker weapon giving it a tech level edge makes missile boats more balanced as pretty much any target can have some PD and missiles especially fired from maximum range tend not to make it through. Fire them from optimum range you risk damage from cannon fire at long range. Makes you work and that’s the point

I would say, just like my ongoing comment that giving longest-range weapon away for NO research is a mistake (IRM doesn't)

... i also opine that the CURE for a weapon (or tactic) should not exist BEFORE it is a problem.

You SHOULD have to work for it-- the solution to missiles, that is. Until then, suffer.

the argument over efficacy of REAL LIFE PD is still unresolved...

by which i mean, in-use missiles have existed sinve the V-1's
and "star wars" defenses are still questionable...

(i did not say, ineffective - i am saying - debated)

My point: 62? years later, we are still R&Ding point defense.
Lets make them research THAT. I agree you should work for it, just disagree over which part.
Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

Evil-Ginger -which may be worse than a Cheshire?- said that.
For anyone lost, i said that i liked Fallen's "autocannon" DUC that have dual-purpose role (anti-ship/anti-missile) - but I opined that they should be a benefit of PD research.

And Fallen: most PD right now is actually AntiMissile Missiles.. yes, we have Phalanx systems, various other anti-air guns, and lets not forget Chaff and ECM - all of it - but the most-relied-upon element is AntiAir(missile) Missile systems - pretty much "bomblet missile".
And with no offense intended, SO FAR, PD in space is FAR more difficult than terrestrial pd.
Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

Off topic
1 for badgers information far worse then any thing from Cheshire “woosy" county that that is

Back on topic
2 When you do get proper PD in IRM you realise how much better it is and comes to realise that the auto canon weapons are the game equivalent of strapping a GPMG to every inch of available railing on a ships and putting up a wall of heavy calibre bullets for an incoming missile to fly through, every time the radar alarm goes off.

3 that they favour shooting at ships to PD work explains why they are less effective than proper PD in multi ship fur balls as the will shoot at ships in range given the chance. It being more likely that a ship will be in range at this point

Historically
4 Pathian horse archery was backed by charges from massively armoured polarm wielding cavalry to break the last knots of resistance.

1.25 is here and I have down loaded it but I am laying off installing it till Falen Haven has had a look at how it affects his MOD. Not that I dont think another patch is a good thing but an IRM which will work with it is even better.

Badger, actually there are 2 kinds of PD, the kind designed to intercept missiles before they hit their target, and the kind that keep missiles from killing you. The intercept kind are what you listed, but we have some VERY EFFECTIVE PD for our "Wet Navy" RL ships, and it doesn't use missiles

1. Playing IRM
And having some little difficulty with the AI making silly ships again(not always by any means, but occaisionally.. missile ships with no pd..cannon ships with just cannon)
And i wondered if a great solution to some of the ...Issuesthat have gotten discussed is maybe to just SUBSTITUTE F-Angel's "Depleted Uranium AutoCannon" for the DUC the AI loves, ALTOGETHER.
Not only does it make more sense as a weapon ANYWAY, AND have more flavor, the fact that it is dual-purpose should give the AI a little assissance.

DUC this, DUC tha - FH making it targetable against more types of targets, as far as i'm concerned, solves the whole issue.
Is it perfect? No! that's the point - un-specialized weapons AREN'T. But the AI doesn't handle "specialized" all that well anyway. It's all about "general Purpose" when yr talking about a mediocre planner.
(so, Badger, why do YOu use Gen Purpose weapons AND "utility ships" that do 3 things at once?...Uh.. SHUT UP!)

2.

and here i always wondered if it was you guys or cheshires that were really the mean ones...
Watch those Siamese...
( i wonder which Kzinti are?)

what's really disturbing is i was looking for a pic of a ginger for ya, and up came "Culinary Uses"... kinda spooked me.

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

The real question of the moment is how does 1.25 effect the Inter related Mod? I would give it a go but I am in the middle of a game at the moment and I don’t like patching stuff mid game just in case

On a side note root ginger makes stewed badger taste great, it was always something I took on survival exercises along with pepper coriander and some cheese wire.

Back to population killing - by 1000k you mean that one nuclear bomb should kill 1M of population?
Because one nuclear bomb gives 1500-2000 and it still can't kill any population...

Hi I am new to IRM

I played the mod for 90 turns and found a few things:

1) all weaponplatforms have no slots in designscreen -> unusable
2) Organic colony ships miss the "max engine 12" entry I could put 16+ in for speed 21 with lvl1 ion-engines
3) the 4 AI's i played against i only found 1 so far and i got 200 more techlevels maybe they do need a bonus in the next game
4) the engine speeds on the higher techlevels need a look at, lvl 8 Ion in a frigate gave me 15 speed, lvl 5 in the 2nd level 15, lvl5 in 3rd lvl 15...??? so i asume lvl5 in quantum give 15 as well? ..or i miss something...

all in all i like the mod, even tho the techtree gives me a headache at times, but nothing that wont change with (game)time.

Szun

so - the IRM is giving me a probby-

the AI is doing TERRIBLE about the cannons and missiles thing...

and then i made fighters.

It's helpless.

So- I sort of mod'd your mod...
I turned all DUC's into autocannons
(the first time i did it wrong and the old AC's turned into mass drivers!!! OOps.)
- to try my own suggestion.

suddenly, NO Ai ship is without at least rudimentary PD - well, except that little missile boat i just ate up...

So far, so good. I'll get back to you on this little experiment...

ps: i editted this after i noticed i'd misssed posts..

The problem is the current AI -even your improved one-
Just doesn't Handle Specialized ANYTHING well.

i had this problem before with the Ai making 30 varieties of "utility" ships - a poor handler of specialists, needs generalists.
But lets try proof in the pudding, shall we?

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

The Xianti who WERE totally helpless with their 3 DUC frigates?

Just fought off a squad of Fighters!
some neutral race I had pushed to the point of Oblivion?

Just shot down Nuclear missiles!

I'm Loving This!

Love! Love! lOve!

I think i just wargasmed

Ok BUT ONE THING.

Wanna tell me why my 40 Marines can't take a colony ship?
They didn't even kill 1 for 1!

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

yeah i felt like the american revolution up in heah!

i ahd 4 squads (40) vs. a crew of 50... i will ook into all the mods & details for ya innna sec-- fair?

what, Fh, you're not interested in the OTHER 1/2 of my msg?

ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING ITS WORKING :)

wow!

these guys ARe tough!

tried it again. two boarding frigates...

the first went in and staus:
37 crew (at 19 str) vs. 34 mnarines (34)
then: second look: 29 vs 9

then there were none

i sent in the second ship.
by the time i checked it was 23 crew, 30 marines

then, 12 crew, 9 marines
then
Silence. 12 crew - NO MARINES.

i checked the racial abilitiies: its the Tiyyod...
they Do get +10% to hit, +5% dmg, but that says for vechicles only...

no security stations...

i'm PRETTY SURE I didn't get the
"can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag"
racial trait...

any clues?

Troll? No, Sir, I am a BADGER!

Ship Hijacking has quite a lot of randomness to my experience. You can start with double the defence crew's firepower and still lose, then insert another ship's marines in separately and win much more easily. This is why I have fleets of kidnappers, not lone ships. Also, consider Toxic Injectors (kill crew) and Tractor Beams to make your life easier.

The above applied to Balance Mod, but the mechanics of ship hijacking is the same I think.
---Sig---
Playing Touhou games (Go here if interested . No, nobody else is that good/insane as that replay). No rush for SE V bug fixing.

btw i used the TNG shipset and i had no slotlayout on the Weaponplatforms..maybe its a issue witht he shipset..i dont know
as i understand the "override" file in mod should make the layout and not the shipset so i dont understand whats wrong..
any ideas?

i started a new game with patch 1.25 and got me the Klingon shipset...i will see if the layout works there if i get to the WP tech

btw i copied all the files but the scripts (do i need those?) to gametype folder, worked with all the other mods i got so i dont see how i missinstalled unless the scripts are needed in there as well. I did see apost about them and your statement was they are only for moders use ...so i left them out..no big deal to copy them as well...

well the klingon set WP layout is working fine and since the game choose to use the TNG empire i copied the terran scripts for them in the hopes they may work better then the ones for the default game.
Why the TNG platform didnt show a layout escapes me tbh

i actually only got the ships for thier looks:D
the TNG wasnt intended as a AI option..but i couldnt find the "AI=NO" in empirefiles ...yet ... i know its somewhere!!! lol

i cant download this file