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Home » news » forums » Space Empires V » Space Empires V General

mega evil empire

Submitted by lcc2 on Thu, 2007-01-18 13:24. Space Empires V General

According to settings.txt a mega evil empire has a score over 500k and is ranked #1 with at least 170% the score of the #2 empire. I meet those conditions by turn 20-25, which pretty much rules out treaty making with more than 1 or 2 empires. In my opinion the score should be 10 or 15 million, not 500k. Do any of you agree with me, or disagree strongly enough to comment ?

‹ My destoryer is screwed Killing Dreadnaughts without Loss ›
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Thy Reaper's picture
Mod Designer

At least 5 million

Submitted by Thy Reaper on Thu, 2007-01-18 13:42.

I don't usually track my points, but I do recall getting in the millions of points rather quickly, so mega evil should only be check once your score is at least 5 million, in my opinion.

-----
Watch for my mod - codename: Dimensions - coming by Summer, 2007!

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Colonization Threshold

Submitted by tmcc on Thu, 2007-01-18 16:52.

I also think that Mega Evil Empire should require a certain percentage of the Galaxy be colonized as well. As long as thre is room for others to expand you should be considered an MEE.

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Badger's picture

i htink rthese definitions

Submitted by Badger on Thu, 2007-01-18 17:09.

i htink rthese definitions should be largely dependent on bombardment and troop planet conquering. an empire that is expanding peacefully- merely colonizing plaets - is quite different.

Anyone who wants power; by definition, cannot be trusted with it...

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The problem isn't there...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Thu, 2007-01-18 21:04.

It's in the scoring. In the stock game, score is quite biased. In my mod the score does reflect the actual power of an empire, having a huge score advantage does make you the "ultimate evil" as you are effectively overrunning everyone else...

In the stock game, the score just cripple the AI. Most of it's routines are based on it, yet it mean next to nothing...

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score problem

Submitted by lcc2 on Thu, 2007-01-18 22:34.

I think you may have put your finger on the problem. At turn 34 I have 29 ships of which one is a frigate and the rest are unarmed colony ships. Yet it looks like twice as many frigates, presumably armed would be needed to equal my space craft tonnage. So it looks like I am a major power where in reality I throw mines above my planets and start worrying when I see a single enemy frigate in my territory. A better measure of ship/base strength would look at weapons point blank attack damage and point defense factored in somehow. Also rather than measuring unit tonnage it should evaluate unit point blank damage. That would make my hundreds of level six warhead mines in early game look more powerful than a comparable tonnage of frigates. It takes me five turns to build 55 organic mines. I wiped out a task force of twelve drushocka destroyers with such a minefield in my last game. So per ton I had about 5-7 times his firepower. Economically the exchange was greatly in my favor.
A second tactic is arming my planets with fighters in mid game. A level 11 duc armed small fighter is much cheaper than a destroyer yet in quantity it can go one on one with task forces of a dozen ships and win with just 50% attrition. The small fighters had level 12 combat sensors and were to hit of 81 and defense modifier of 82. Destroyers got swamped by a cloud of fighters. The only thing you cannot do effectively with fighters is a carrier based warp point transit into a blockade. Generally you can find a back door undefended warp point or alternatively just intelligence attack ships and fleets until his ships have all come over to your side. If you have plenty of carriers you can take a heavily armed warp point simply by exhausting his supply of ordnance, if he is still using ducs.

This brings up the point that score should somehow take into account intelligence power to measure how likely you are to subvert enemy empires into submission. Also total tech points spent are a better measure than tech levels to evaluate score.

In summary score calculation is a simple convenient formula which will not accurately measure empire power until some fundamental changes are made.

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Psieye's picture

But before all that...

Submitted by Psieye on Thu, 2007-01-18 23:37.

Before all that though, has the bug for triggering Mega Evil been fixed? As in, has anyone actually been branded the Mega Evil empire recently? The bug was that 'get score' always returned 0 so Mega Evil never ever triggered, as well as score-based victory conditions.

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Thy Reaper's picture
Mod Designer

Should be...

Submitted by Thy Reaper on Thu, 2007-01-18 23:45.

Kwok mentioned that the scoring calls have been fixed, so it should be able to identify you as Mega Evil. I'm not going to play stock until the AI is vastly improved however, so I'm not sure. Hasn't happened in BM yet, but I'm not that far along yet, either.

I would like to see this feature fixed. When I got used to SE:IV and was able to expand faster and hold back the computers well enough, I was surprised that they all got mad at my gigantic empire. Happily suprised, of course. Until a few turns later when I found out they all had fleets of 40 ships sitting behind those warp points and I had 6. Total. Smiling

-----
Watch for my mod - codename: Dimensions - coming by Summer, 2007!

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The scoring can be fixed really easily...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Fri, 2007-01-19 04:46.

I did it in my mod, the game support it, it's just that MM did not put much time into it. In my mod the score take everything into account, like ressource, tonnage, tech level, tech cost, population count and so on... My scoring seem to evaluate each empire more accuratly. It does not evalute firepower however, but does see the cost of each ships so someone who build a lot of empty ships isn't going to win much scorewize...

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No Bluffing Sucks.

Submitted by Riptokus on Fri, 2007-01-19 20:35.

I kind of get annoyed that anything is based on something that shouldn't be seen without scouting anyway. I think to make a real good diplomacy model, unknown strengths should be possible. Thats what makes a game against players so fun. If you can't bluff, and the AI never tries to bluff, where's the end fun?

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Badger's picture

bluffing. INTEL>

Submitted by Badger on Fri, 2007-01-19 20:53.

I wholeheartedly agrree. This goes with the mega evil empire discussion...

Intel intel intel

btw notice any intel difference whether colnists are allowed, trade, etc?

Anyone who wants power; by definition, cannot be trusted with it...

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