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Home » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

Ground combat mod

Submitted by Brad on Thu, 2006-12-07 22:36. SE:V MODs

I've added a few unit types and components to make ground combat a bit more involved. No other aspect of the game is changed. You can use combined arms between infantry, tanks, artillery and air support. As this is the first release, I'd love some feedback on the balance between the various units and technologies.

Sadly I'm just about the worst artist on the planet so I haven't made any new models. If anyone wants to make models for infantry and gun carriages for their favourite race, please do so.

You can download the mod here

‹ Vehicle requirement formula functions Creation of a very diplomatic, peaceful, expansionistic AI: (Long post) ›
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Hum...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Mon, 2006-12-11 17:08.

I admit, ground combat is a bit lame in SE5. It seem to only be about overrunning the opposition, very little tactics... What did you change to make it more interesting?

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ekolis's picture
Mod Designer

What if you were to reduce

Submitted by ekolis on Tue, 2006-12-12 14:43.

What if you were to reduce the number of units per side so instead of a mass swarm of units, you had a smaller number of tougher units representing larger military units?
An easy way to do that would be just to increase the size and hitpoints of all ground units by 10 times or some other arbitrary factor...
In addition, instead of just having "mega tanks of doom" which is basically what SE5 troops are, what if you replaced Small/Medium/Large troops with various real-life sizes of military unit (like divisions and corps and armies), then replaced the troop components with various smaller units such as battalions of infantry, tanks, aircraft, etc.?

~~~
Mr. Flibble says...
Game over, boys! Laughing out loud

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What I was trying to achieve

Submitted by Brad on Tue, 2006-12-12 17:30.

What I was trying to achieve was a more combined-arms thing. It's somewhat of a 20th century feel (I started off with a WWII feel, but then decided that was a bit too low tech...) with infantry, tanks, field artillery, and air support. Because every ground combat takes place on a city background, I went for the feel of fighting in a built up area. Infantry can take full advantage of all the cover, and as such are very hard to shift except by other infantry. OTOH they need tanks or big guns of their own to hold off enemy tanks. Fighter can be built up as bombers to take out enemy troops, or fighters to take out enemy fighters.

All that said, however, it still needs some work.

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cordas's picture

Posted this elsewhere but would like to add it to this thread

Submitted by cordas on Tue, 2006-12-12 18:49.

cordas wrote:
One thing I would like to see added is a self defence weapon system for weapon platforms. If you manage to land troops on a planet with Weapons Platforms they just sit there like lemons waiting to be pupled.

OK I understand that they are primarily huge weapons systems that are meant to protect the planet from space attack, but they should be able to fire on troops as well, even if its with a hugely reduced rate of fire / accuracy or damage.

Personally I would say they fire at 0.2x the rate of fire (a 2 second rate of fire becomes 10 seconds) doing full damage. Similar to when the Germans used their 88mm anti aircraft guns against tanks in France because they had nothing else, they also used the same guns as anti-infantry in desperation or out of sheer boredom and the availability of a target (many soldiers have done this out of desperation or boredom).

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I've just updated the mod.

Submitted by Brad on Tue, 2006-12-12 21:29.

I've just updated the mod. The big change is adding the new units to the strategies.txt file - now they'll attack each other instead of running away.

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I've done a lot more delving

Submitted by Brad on Wed, 2006-12-20 00:48.

I've done a lot more delving in an attempt to improve this mod, and from what I've discovered it's going to be very difficult if not impossible to get it to work the way I want. See, from what I can figure, a lot of "Troop" based stuff must be in the code rather than the moddable files. Like the "Troops in cargo" icon. It's in the bitmap effects file, but changing the word "Troops" to "Infantry" doesn't give you an icon if you have "Infantry" units in cargo. That's just an example - there are other, similar problems.

I have an idea about how to work around the whole problem by making all ground units come under the "Troops" unit type, but it's going to make the component list in the design window very ugly.

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Rilo57's picture

relative effectiveness

Submitted by Rilo57 on Wed, 2006-12-20 11:35.

Another key issue is, can you make certain types of troops more effective against other certain typs of troops? For instance, can you make infantry less effective against tanks, but infantry are effective against other infantry?

SEV, more than a feeling.

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Rilo57's picture

This mod is really a cool

Submitted by Rilo57 on Wed, 2006-12-20 11:36.

This mod is really a cool idea, it could make it so that you can't just swarm the city. You'll need to cordinate your attack with a could unit types.

SEV, more than a feeling.

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In answer to the first -

Submitted by Brad on Wed, 2006-12-20 14:11.

In answer to the first - yes. The current setup is that basic infantry can't hurt tanks (unless the tanks rather foolishly don't take any armour components). You can give them an RPG component so that they can hurt tanks, but then they can't hurt other infantry. OTOH, I made infantry hard to hit (because they can take cover in the rubble) so tanks can't necessarily overwhelm them, you need infantry of your own to dig them out.

As to the second, well, given the combat engine, that's not so easy to do. But it does tend to force you into taking combined arms. If you drop a bunch of tanks on a planet defended only by AT guns, you'll probably lose. If you drop a bunch of tanks on a planet defended only by planes, you'll almost certainly lose. If you drop a bunch of AT guns on a planet defended only by infantry, you'll definately lose. If you drop a mixture of troop types, you have a better chance. Rock - paper - scissors...

Well, assuming for the sake of argument an intelligent defender, of course. After I get the basic balance right, I'll see what I can do with the AI.

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cordas's picture

sounds cool. just makem sure

Submitted by cordas on Wed, 2006-12-20 19:26.

sounds cool. just makem sure thatr each type can damage the other even f it takes overwheling numbers

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cordas's picture

opps to much beer

Submitted by cordas on Wed, 2006-12-20 19:31.

opps to much beer

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cordas's picture

Is this mod a game breaker?

Submitted by cordas on Thu, 2006-12-21 06:11.

Is this mod a game breaker? Or will it just fit into an existing game?

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I make no guarantees, but it

Submitted by Brad on Fri, 2006-12-22 00:01.

I make no guarantees, but it should load an existing game. I didn't muck around with the order of things in components.txt, for example - it's all added to the end of the file.

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Version 2.0alpha is now

Submitted by Brad on Sun, 2006-12-31 00:09.

Version 2.0alpha is now available for download here

From the history file:

The New and Improved version!  This time around I've given it more of a Space Empires
feel, rather than the 20th Century feel of the previous version, by utilising existing SEV
weaponry.  Tanks, Artillery and Bunkers now have access to a version of most small weapons,
and Infantry small-arms can now fire either solid bullets, energy bolts or energy beams (they
all have exactly the same effects, but allow you to customise the look-and-feel of your
infantry to your preferred race style).

Version 2.0 alpha (31 December 2006)
------------------------------------

1. Changed - new unit types were not working, so all have been subsumed into 'Troops'
2. Changed - increased the number of weapon components available
3. Changed - increased the number of militia
4. Changed - decreased Fighter sizes

The reason this is an alpha release is because of this apparent bug making fighters still the most potent single unit and infantry somewhat useless as it currently stands. But if/when this bug gets fixed the mod should be almost finished.

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Well... finished except for

Submitted by Brad on Sun, 2006-12-31 00:55.

Well... finished except for the major bug whereby the AI can't even design any troops. Oops. Time to start delving into the AI scripts.

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Mod Designer

Speaking of bugs

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2006-12-31 02:00.

There's another you need to be aware of- at least some of the time, the game doesn't read the settings.txt milita settings, so you get stock militia.

What problems were you having with the new units types? I've got them into my mod fine..

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The absolute game-breaker

Submitted by Brad on Sun, 2006-12-31 15:10.

The absolute game-breaker was that units would run away all the time regardless of strategy, supply/ordnance levels or anything else. They simply refused to attack when under automatic control, although if manually moved towards the enemy would attack normally. I tried fiddling with strategies.txt to add the new unit and design types but couldn't get it to work.

There were other minor problems as well. Like the cargo icon listed above.

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Mod Designer

Oh, that

Submitted by Phoenix-D on Sun, 2006-12-31 16:09.

PES ran into that problem with his Starfire mod. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=474774&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The problem is the strategies. "run away" is the default. Smiling You need to add them in as a target type to the existing strategies, AND make a new empire file. The strategies are saved with an empire, so if you make changes to them and use an old file, the changes won't be reflected.

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So just changing

Submitted by Brad on Mon, 2007-01-01 13:11.

So just changing strategies.txt won't work, I'd have to alter the strategies in-game and then save the empire?

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