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Home » news » forums » Support & Feedback » Scenarios & Mods » SE:V MODs

Tech interrelation mod.

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Mon, 2006-11-13 19:11. SE:V MODs

I truly like the concept behind this game, but i think it need a few improvement in a few areas (and i'm not talking about the bugs hunting). Here a few ideas i'm thinking to turn into a mod :

- Making the theorical tech more useful by making them required by their related sub techs. I mean, if you don't have the high enough level in the theorical field, you can't use high level tech you researched in the sub fields. For exemple, you want to put a level ten supply storage on a ship, but you are only level 3 in construction (wich in my mod would give you access to 4 levels above the contruction tech level), you can only use level 7 storage. To use your level 10, you have to raise the Construction tech one more level. (to do)

- The structure of a component increase with it's level so ship's internals can take the higher damage the weapons can do. (done)

- Killing population takes more damage (hey, they are millions, a low level weapons should not be able to kill them so easily) making bombardment devices or troops more useful. (done)

- Increase the supply and ordnance capacity of planets so they can hold enough to resupply a few ships or the fighters / troops they hold. (done)

- Increase the production of supply and ordinance so you don't need ages to resupply a small fleets. Larger ships may take more time until you invest in resupply depots. (done)

- Ship yards produce some supply and ammos (hey, they can make fully stocked ships, they can spare some for the ships in orbit). (done)

- Decrease the % of capacity carrier and freighter (40% instead of 50%) need to of their main component. This make possible to fill them with storage and other devices. (done)

- Make the ships require number of engines related to their size (a frigate need 6, destroyer need 8, colony need 16... Dread need 20). This mean you need to disable more engines before they are stranded. Also added a minimum number of engines (half) needed for the design to be valid (so ships have a descent minimum speed). (done)

- I'm currently looking at making the new engines more appealing to use. Right now besides the bonus move (given as long as you have one of them on ship), they are not better than the cheaper, lower tech one. Why pay more if you earlier tech can do just as well? (to do)

Edit : I guess that making them more sturdy than the earlier tech can make up for their extra cost for now.

That's what i have in mind so far, but some of thoses may need me to wait for the patch as the changes are quite time consuming and the new patch may screw things up.

‹ Beginning with ship(s) instead of planet(s) Preventing Stellar Manipulation components from breaking? ›
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Update.

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Mon, 2006-11-13 22:39.

-Tied PD weapons with their related tech. Bomblets are related to missile and small weapons, point-defense cannons to projectile weapons, flak to projectile weapons levels.

-Tied engines to chemistry and contruction levels (max 10, 4 levels for free).

-Tied bridge, crew quarters, life support, fighter cockpit, troop cockpit, fighter life support to construction. Each levels increase the structure kt (mean they can take more damage) while not increasing cost.

-Tied Sensors to physics, Computer cores to computers.

Weapons will be a pains to tie, they are so numberous it's insane... Sad

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Rilbur's picture

Ideas

Submitted by Rilbur on Mon, 2006-11-13 23:19.

Why not increase teh defense provided by shields/armor, rather than making internal structure so strong you don't really need 'em? (Or in addition). While your at it, don't forget to make shield regenerators useful again,or just rip 'em out.

On engines, why not replace bonus movement with having the higher-level engines give more speed to the ship? (If you don't want max speed increasing, you can set up the engine requirement to allow a fewer number of higher level engines while still allowing the same on lower).

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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Hum...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Tue, 2006-11-14 00:43.

Rilbur wrote:
Why not increase teh defense provided by shields/armor, rather than making internal structure so strong you don't really need 'em? (Or in addition). While your at it, don't forget to make shield regenerators useful again,or just rip 'em out.

The increase in internal structure is small, nothing like the armor rate, and since techs are inter-related in my mod, you need to raise levels in several techs before your devices level up. Nothing game breaking. I did not make it far enough in the game to play with the regenerator, i barely used shields Sticking out tongue.

Quote:
On engines, why not replace bonus movement with having the higher-level engines give more speed to the ship? (If you don't want max speed increasing, you can set up the engine requirement to allow a fewer number of higher level engines while still allowing the same on lower).

I have yet to figure out how to change them in a meaningful way. I don't want to end up with ships that can cross whole systems in a turn or be that sluggish that they barelly make a few hexes even with all their engines on. I haven found a way to change acceleration in combat yet...

As for updates. I tied several devices with levels in biology, industry, construction, military science, physics etc... You can research a field 4-5 levels before you need to level the theorical along. I could also make it so you can't continue research before you reach a certain level in some requirement (like you can't reseach more beams level until you raise more level in physics).

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Rilbur's picture

Hrm

Submitted by Rilbur on Tue, 2006-11-14 11:04.

Well, what I was talking about was basicly QNP (quasi-newtonian propulsion) btw. Give larger ships higher "engine-to-move" ratios, and give varying levels of engines differen't engine amounts.

And you can mod combat move with combat movement abilities, though they don't stack unfortunatly. (That said, you *could* fake it, I think, using formulas on the hull... give each hull a combat move ability that counts the number of engines on board to determine the bonus... Holy ****, I just gave myself an idea while trying to help you! Thanks!)

That said, if you want to increase the relative strength of structure without having it skyrocket, you're just oging to have to turn the weapons down a couple of notches, 'cause they get AMAZINGLY powerful later on.

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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My mod is going along fine...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Tue, 2006-11-14 12:35.

Rilbur wrote:
Well, what I was talking about was basicly QNP (quasi-newtonian propulsion) btw. Give larger ships higher "engine-to-move" ratios, and give varying levels of engines differen't engine amounts.

That i have already done, small ships need less engines to move around while the larger ones needs more (work well, but i may need to change the scripts for the AI). This also help larger ships because it gives them more devices to soak damage when the armor is penetrated.

Quote:
That said, if you want to increase the relative strength of structure without having it skyrocket, you're just oging to have to turn the weapons down a couple of notches, 'cause they get AMAZINGLY powerful later on.

All taken care of. While you may still have level 20-100 in most technologies, the devices on ships never raise that high since they are tied to theorical and sometimes to other related techs level. I left the high level in because it unlock new techs over time, wich is a nice feature. As for structural integrity, i still need to ballance it a bit because it makes the ships slower since more mass affect acceleration while making the ship harder to kill. I think i can fix it with the engines somehow...

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Rilbur's picture

Tonnage Structure

Submitted by Rilbur on Tue, 2006-11-14 23:13.

Don't think of "tonnage structure" as how much stuff weighs, think of it as how much damage it can absorb (i. e. the materials involved have changed to take more dmg before breaking). Thats why tonnage structure and regulare tonnage are seperate. (In fact, KT is just a generic "unit label" used even in weapons, it doesn't mean the structure "masses x KTs")

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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Well, in practice...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Wed, 2006-11-15 00:19.

The game consider it weight, the acceleration is calculated from the structure KT and not from the other. Though i tryied to see if it mattered in game terms but seem the acceleration isn't calculated at all... But the extra KT i've given to my ships seem to make them last a bit longer in combat, though they still get crippled quickly.

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Finished inter-relating my techs...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Wed, 2006-11-15 02:37.

It's done, just need to package it properly (i don't know how to make it a stand alone mod yet, i just overright the original file). I should have a link tomorrow.

Damn, it was quite a job...

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devnullicus's picture
Mod Designer

Next Time...

Submitted by devnullicus on Wed, 2006-11-15 02:43.

Next time you need to edit your tech tree, consider my editor - makes editing techs a LOT easier Smiling

http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

--
You have reached an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.

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Better late than never...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Wed, 2006-11-15 11:01.

devnullicus wrote:
Next time you need to edit your tech tree, consider my editor - makes editing techs a LOT easier Smiling

http://www.devnullsoftware.com/se5

--
You have reached an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.

Nice, i'll try that.

Edit : very useful, i even found typos... I may have found something else to mod before release though. I haven't got a picture for the mod either...

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Checking back my code...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Thu, 2006-11-16 14:21.

I found that the game has a lot of typos from the devs themselves. They also have made quite a few mistakes in assigning max level techs and components can reach, like a tech that can reach levels way above the devices/facilities related to them or the tech have too little levels compared to the devices it should provide for... So i'm fixing thoses while making my mod. Though i hope they won't change the code too much in 1.14 or else i might just be wasting my time coding this.

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Rilbur's picture

A few things

Submitted by Rilbur on Sat, 2006-11-18 12:07.

A few things... first, are you sure the game models acceleration based on the "mass" of the ship? I think acceleration/turn rate are "locked" in by the vehiclesizes.txt file.

On that note, I'm, er, stealing a few of your ideas. I don't like the base tech tree much, so my capship mod is going to have a completely revamped tech tree (oh boy is testing this thing going to hoight!) were techs are generated from a gridded design of theoretical techs and engineering techs. (I. e. math behind the device, then the practical ideas on how to turn the math into a device, kinda like I can sketch out a nuklear reactor or bomb based on my phsysics class QUITE readily, but I can't make one without the engineering skills I don't have).

There are 10 types of people in the world:

Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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Thy Reaper's picture
Mod Designer

Should be based on tonnage

Submitted by Thy Reaper on Sat, 2006-11-18 15:20.

Just moments ago I happened to be looking through VehicleSizes.txt, and the acceleration amounts are locked into the file, but they are also based on the tonnage of the ship. I think it's the tonnage used on the design, not the size.

-----
Give me atmopshperic manipulation cannons, or give me death!

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Nice

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Sat, 2006-11-18 16:52.

Rilbur wrote:
A few things... first, are you sure the game models acceleration based on the "mass" of the ship? I think acceleration/turn rate are "locked" in by the vehiclesizes.txt file.

Yeah, it's where i should look for. Everything else seem to work, but my changes to the engines don't...

Quote:
On that note, I'm, er, stealing a few of your ideas. I don't like the base tech tree much, so my capship mod is going to have a completely revamped tech tree (oh boy is testing this thing going to hoight!) were techs are generated from a gridded design of theoretical techs and engineering techs. (I. e. math behind the device, then the practical ideas on how to turn the math into a device, kinda like I can sketch out a nuklear reactor or bomb based on my phsysics class QUITE readily, but I can't make one without the engineering skills I don't have).

I tryied to reuse existing tech and give them some use. I did not cap each reseach tree themselves (i could) but how the devices show up in the tree. There are so many possibilities, i just try to not to make every tech reach the same level at once, giving some flavor in ship designs...

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engines

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Sat, 2006-11-18 16:54.

Thy Reaper wrote:
Just moments ago I happened to be looking through VehicleSizes.txt, and the acceleration amounts are locked into the file, but they are also based on the tonnage of the ship. I think it's the tonnage used on the design, not the size.

-----
Give me atmopshperic manipulation cannons, or give me death!

That's how i understand it should work, but in practice it seem to be based on how many active engines you have relative to a multiplier (the one that allow me to have a 6 engine frigate move as fast as a 8 engine destroyer).

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Mod progress.

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Wed, 2006-11-22 00:50.

I'm still updating my mod and fixing it's bugs. Everything seem to work, but now it's the problem of making the AI/Minister make use of my changes. I modded the number of engines on each ships, it works fine, but the autobuild don't do it right, and the minister don't seem to be able to make a ship (but can make some units, shipyard base and satellites)... I did put a minimum and maximum number of engines, work fine for the player but i wonder if the AI can use this. Really need to check the scripts...

Edit : Argn, so much time i wasted trying to sort things when it can be changed in the settings... Why the option isn't where we need it?

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I'm really close to release something...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Thu, 2006-11-23 23:59.

I'm too enthusiastic, i mod too much Sticking out tongue. If i don't stop myself, it will be a completly new game before i can even try it ! I modded the scripts and got way farther than what Captain Kwok did (started from his files, but they are so heavily changed very litle of his work remain). I made new class of ships and made sure the AI has some more variety of ships to throw at us, not just a bunch of ships with of different size with the same loadout. They are more specialised, with bigger ships using more of the bigger hardware % wise and filling the left over space with secondary weapons. Now i just have to make sure all this complicated change actually work in game (and refrain from modding it even further Sticking out tongue).

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I had to start over...

Submitted by Fallen Haven on Sun, 2006-11-26 08:02.

At some point, after looking at how the AI does things, i realised my whole mod concept would not work. The AI can't understand the concept of researching several tech for one device, and seem to be able to use only a few specific devices in it's design, so the inter-relation might jam the AI...

So i started over from scratch, rebuilding the game from the ground up. My new concept is more stremlined and is not limited by how the devs planned the game originally. If something bugs me, i change it. But i do respect the backstory of each race and try to make the game reflect that. The tech availiable at start will vary from race to race, some will start with high tech stuff while others with low tech ones. There is no need to research the low tech junk if you start with better stuff, and switching to more powerful tech is optionnal. I'm still in the planning stage but my new concept is way more thrilling than the last, but it will take some time before i can even test my changes. At least this game is modular so it doesn't mind features that don't work yet Sticking out tongue.

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