Research space station

It's Point Generation - Intelligence and you expected change in research output?
Check your intel window instead.

Are you checking to see if you put the "Number Of Abilities := 2" instead of "Number Of Abilities := 1" just above the list of abilities?

Dragagon

The problem is that research appears to be a planet based production. The game may not like you trying to apply research points to a ship/base instead of to a planet. Might be something to request as a feature or look into as a bug. I'd say its probably working as designed and you have to request it as a feature.

Dragagon

Great idea, it would make for a great addition the the tech tree as a new ship component.

Yes use the left menu to goto Projects & Downloads/Core Products/SEV/Request New Feature.

I thought I saw something about Research production as one of the pieces of information you could add to the SHIP Display. That made me think there is probably a way you can make a ship generate research. Though, I could be totally mistaken. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

You do realise that you have spealt research wrong on line 2.

I know its easy to miss these things but sometimes the simplest thing can mess up a code line.

You're quite correct that spelling can effect code. But it wouldn't matter in the description field, that only displays text on the tooltip. So in this case it wouldn't mess up the code.

Edit: After posting I took another look at your code. The only conclusion I can come up at this time is that componants don't yet support research (or intel) generation yet.

MM might add that in a later patch after he's addressed bigger issues.

Edit 2: Can you post the full code for that componant, I (or someone who reads it before me) might be able to spot something that could cause it not to work.

Your lord and master (below Foamy) LordHavoc

Change the scope from Space Object to Sector - This Player. Space Object *should* work, but apparently ships aren't built for that yet. Sector - This Player works, but the ship doesn't begin generating right away; it takes a turn or two.

EDIT: it isn't perfect, though. For some reason, other players can see the research point generates in THEIR ability lists, but not actually use them.

I find myself in need of a similar component. After some experimentation I've discovered that Scope := System - This Player is about the best thing. You can also use Galaxy - This Player if you want to continue generating the points in a system with no spaceport.

That said, it appears that the ship is not doing the actual point generation as far as the game is concerned. The points show up in the spaceport planet's output. The planet population/happiness modifiers also apply.

I'd just like to add that this would be a nice mod to see, and I'd add it to my games so I hope it gets implemented.

I am not near my code so I can pull it up but I was able to modify and create a research lab for use aboard ships and space stations (even designed orbital habitats but I digress). I modified the medical lab component to generate research points but incrementally so that you don't create such a huge advantage. It works extremely well. If you have not figured this out yet send me a note and I will dig up the code I used. I also created a cryptology lab to generate similar points for intelligence that works perfectly. Using the fractional increment simply modified your empires points.

So we can finally have a completely workable Nomad race, one that doesn't need to use planets, or does MM need to alter the code?

Pirates & Nomads for SE:IV was great, can't wait to get something like it for V. And once it's working perfectly, be sure to prevent the pirate/nomad races from using ground troops or any form of colonization. It's too tempting to just start grabbing and holding planets, even if you don't need them. Or maybe there could be some kind of huge penalty for owning them--like they remain in permanent rebellion.

Why waste ships on research generation? If you want a ship to generate massive research then build a sphere world.
Omnius

I think SEV will support Nomads with minor tinkering. You need to introduce tech areas to enable the right size ships but throw in miniaturization or some way to defray the standard maintenance cost otherwise it climbs exponential with tonnage. Use the same miniaturization levels to effect shrinkage of weapons and other components/vehicles (though you need to create a few that mimic standard planetside facilities) and wallah you have a workable Nomad race. I have not looked at the AI scripting in depth but I think you can block their ability to build troops and colony modules. The offset for them would be higher level spaceyards and or remote mining capabilities.

I've run into a bug in SE:V 1.20 where I can't mothball/scrap or even fire on Bases. They just sit there eating up maintenance no matter what I do. Is this a confirmed issue that's been reported or was it a freak occurrence unique to me?

Towards the end of the SE4 patches, there was an ability added to allow components to generate resources, such as research and so on. It shouldn't be difficult to get the same sort of function added here without resorting to weird workarounds.

This seems to work but as mentioned earlier it is only an early game advantage. I have did some minor testing with it but nothing significant so if there are issues please provide feedback.

Name :=Research Bay
Description :=High-Tech researching lab which develops new technology and theory from studies in space.
Picture Number := 32
Maximum Level := 10
Tonnage Space Taken Formula := 5
Tonnage Structure Formula := 5
Cost Minerals Formula := 50 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 2)
Cost Organics Formula := 20 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 1)
Cost Radioactives Formula := 20 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 1)
Supply Amount Used Formula := 0
Ordnance Amount Used Formula := 0
Can Be Placed On Vehicle Types := Ship, Base
Can Be Placed In Ship Sections := Inner Hull, Outer Hull
Component Type List := Technological
General Group := Miscellaneous
Custom Group := 0
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Applied Research.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Applied Research") >= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Number Of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point Generation Modifier - Research
Ability 1 Description := Research generation throughout the empire increased by [%Amount1%]%.
Ability 1 Scope := Galaxy - This Player
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 1.01
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Cryptology Bay
Description := High-Tech intelligence lab that collects data in space.
Picture Number := 32
Maximum Level := 10
Tonnage Space Taken Formula := 5
Tonnage Structure Formula := 5
Cost Minerals Formula := 50 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 2)
Cost Organics Formula := 20 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 1)
Cost Radioactives Formula := 20 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 1)
Supply Amount Used Formula := 0
Ordnance Amount Used Formula := 0
Can Be Placed On Vehicle Types := Ship, Base
Can Be Placed In Ship Sections := Inner Hull, Outer Hull
Component Type List := Technological
General Group := Miscellaneous
Custom Group := 0
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Intelligence Services.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Intelligence Services") >= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Number Of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence
Ability 1 Description := Intelligence generation throughout the empire increased by [%Amount1%]%.
Ability 1 Scope := Galaxy - This Player
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 1.01
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Weapon Type := None

For game ballance, they should take more space on a ship, not be something even a combat frigate can have on board to fill the remaining space... A research or an intel ship should be dedicated to their work.

SE5 has those abilities as well, but they're a bit odd.

In SE4, they are almost impossible to use, because the points generated don't show up in the reports screen. Bit hard to keep track of empire finances if most of your points are "invisible"

This is exactly the kind of info I need for my mod! I plan on including components that have these rough characteristics:

100kt per component,
100 + 10 per level research points
Cost of 3000 Minerals, 250 org, 250 rad

The idea is they produce 2x the research points per tonnage but cost 5x as much to maintain. (They cost 10x as much, but the maintenance reduction of space stations halve the maintenance.

Intelligence facilities operate similarly, and I plan on adding other facilities as well. Possible ideas:

Orbital Atmospheric converters
Orbital supply/ordinance generation
Orbital supply distribution
Orbital space port

I do not believe SE5 has the 1.91 style arbitrary generation abilities, of any sort. Remember that the facility abilities were like "point generation - research" (or "resource generation - minerals") and the arbitrary abilities were like "generate points research".

Point Generation - Research and Intel are there, but they don't appear to function. Minerals I did have working, but the ship had to be parked over a planet, and the resources were added to the planet's total..

Mylon,
Ah, great ideas for additions to the game but if my experiment in tinkering with formulas in the planetsize file works this may not be necessary except that it is just cool to have such orbitals
So far I have been able to compile/parse the code for miniaturizing components, facilities, and using the same technique to impact planet size. I still have to test it. For kicks I tried this by adding two other tech areas in addition to miniaturization dealing with large scale surface/subsurface habs using the GETL function. Did another playfully called 8 Sigma Engineering Quality to retool the maintenance cost of large ships/orbitals. We'll see if the computer melts when I try to execute in a controlled game.

BTW, anyone using the code/text I post. I am forward deployed and have no access to anything to create pictures so I simply utilize the jpg files for stuff already there. Someone with a good graphics editor can throw those out to the crowd.

Mylon,
I'll dig up the text code for ordnance generating facility for a ship from my files. I played with that as well.

Ordanance Generation allready exists....
It's in the organic tech tree.
As does supply generation.

And it's fairly easy to create components using thoses abilities. I have thoses in my mod.

Nicky21,
It does not make sense to waste ships on research, especially early in the game. In the early stages you need all the warships you can crank out for protection and exploration. Making research colonies and whole systems makes sense and generates big research points instead of whatever wimpy research you could generate from a ship.

If blowing up ships is boring then why are you playing this game? Shouldn't you be playing something less violent like Tiddly Winks?
Omnius

Anyone who wants power; by definition, cannot be trusted with it...

I TRIED TO ADD THAT AS A MY FIRST EMPIRE AND .. WELL...

It didnt work out so well...
But i imagine alot of the same thins will have to get fixed.
if i can just "talk" the computer into researching "MASTER COMPUTER" componenets

In vs Computer games I get 6 systems, max the tech tree, close my warpgate, build 1 constructor ship, then create a nasty ravager situation where that one constructor ship burns the galaxy to ash. I do this because there isn't anything better to do once I max the research tree. I like playing just as another empire playing Diplomacy and having minor wars over borders and exploring and fighting the more evil-acting empires (The ones doing intelligence or using viral weapons)

Just because someone doesn't like to do the "Ooh, My guns are biggest" game doesn't mean this game doesn't suit them. Yes, this game's designed as 4x and yes, the 4th x is Exterminate, but it's also a Space Empire Simulation, and there are some people on this planet that believe, if you would believe this, that NOT ALL ALIENS OUT THERE ARE HOSTILE!
wow. Imagine that. Perhaps there might be a few real nasty races out there, but that life is about living and not killing. Given that is what some crazy people out there believe, perhaps a game that allows them to co-exist peacefully, like the Abbidons and the Humans in Starfury, could be what they are looking for and SEV can fit the bill?

As for me, LET THE GALAXY BURN!

Right, but those are the facility abilities, not the arbitrary generation abilities intended for ships. Those ones were "generate points research" type. "Point generation research" has always been planet-bound, affected by population and all. The actual component type abilities still need to be added back in. The naming is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Fyron - is that something that we user's can mod back in or is that hard coded in SEV?

You can't mod in new ability types.

BlueM99n84 wrote:

Mylon, Ah, great ideas for additions to the game but if my experiment in tinkering with formulas in the planetsize file works this may not be necessary except that it is just cool to have such orbitals So far I have been able to compile/parse the code for miniaturizing components, facilities, and using the same technique to impact planet size. I still have to test it. For kicks I tried this by adding two other tech areas in addition to miniaturization dealing with large scale surface/subsurface habs using the GETL function. Did another playfully called 8 Sigma Engineering Quality to retool the maintenance cost of large ships/orbitals. We'll see if the computer melts when I try to execute in a controlled game.

Formula's in the planetsize? Did you get this to work?

I tried to "simulate" a race's ability to "better utilize the space on a planet" by creating a tech (let's call it "urban planning" and then modifying the size of each facility by that. So, each level a race gets in Urban Planning, all facilities magically shrink. (I figure you can build more on a planet. Same effect.

So, the formula would be:

1000 - ( 1000 * (Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Urban Planning")) * 0.001 )

How did you handle this? Did it work?

Also, you mentioned previously that you got "space-based habitats" working, or something along those lines...I am interested in knowing just what you did for this, and how they work

Good stuff, BlueM99n84!

Name := Research Center
Description := High-Tech researching facility that develops new technology for a society.
Facility Group := Research
XFile Class Name := Research Center
Picture Number := 7
Maximum Level := 11
Tonnage Space Taken Formula := 1000
Tonnage Structure Formula := 1000 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 25)
Cost Minerals Formula := 1500 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 100)
Cost Organics Formula := 250 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 25)
Cost Radioactives Formula := 250 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 25)
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Applied Research.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Applied Research") >= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point Generation - Research
Ability 1 Description := Research Centers generate [%Amount1%] research points per turn.
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 500 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 50)
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0

I found this is a bit for balanced 1/2 the size of a space yard so it has to be placed in its own bases at least early on i have it set to base only cause for some reason it did not want to work on a ship (could have been anything but most likely it was me)

thank to BlueM99n84 for the "Description field"

For some reason it throws off my expected results window???

Yes, your formula is close to what I used. I called it Quantum Engineering with 100 levels. The time consuming part was editing it per item since I did not use a percentage based formula. But it works like a champ so that over the course of time if you pour in the research points your facility footprints shrink and you turn your Huge world with 25 facs into one with 50 or 75.

The orbital habitats work just perfect. I was able to use some of the spaceport abilities and tested it by building a habitat in a solar system with only asteroids. I called the device I created a distribution node. I then built mining vessels set the asteroids to max value 300/300/300 and since I had no remote mining anywhere else in the empire I could see what happened. My first mining ship pulled onto station with another nifty little device that combined all three resources extraction functions and was pulling in 12.6K minerals, 12.6K organics, and 12.6K rads.

I am now testing the research and intel to see if with a node in the system I can build orbital labs that generate research and intel points.

any way to make research points from multiple research labs in the same station be added to research in the empie.

In my current MOD, I have 11 research station bases around my planets generating according to ship sumarary 600K research, my planets generate 800K. But in total research:
with scope: Space Object = total research is 800K
with scope: Galaxy this player- research 1000K

Any reason why I am not getting 1400K??

I have been looking at this as well. It may have something to do with racial traits and population. I am experimenting now to see exactly what the difference is between a lab coded with Galaxy, System, and Space Object. More to follow.

Intersting...there is a lag of one turn but the lab coded with a System flag i.e. System - This Player produced about the 1% point increase I coded it for. The math was not precise which is kind of weird...it is off by 10 points or so. I only have one system with all planet populations maxed and no upgrades to research labs so there should be no churn in the research point generation but that small point variation occurs. I then killed the lab and it dropped back again to the original point total after a lag of one turn. So at least the "System" tag works for labs which means it will work for both research and intel.

For game flavour I would want my exploration ships to have research point generation as the boldly go where no rabbitoid has ever gone before as discovering new systems and phenomina, as well as just being on long range missions would increase the body of knowledge...

The only thing about this is that I can see it being heavily abused, leaving the AI in the dark...

Haha, would be great, reminds me of Homeworld, where you had laboratory ships

---

Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment.

* Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"